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Author Topic: Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks  (Read 4907 times)

felix5616

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« on: August 16, 2008, 08:33:30 pm »

I would like to hear from anyone that is using or has used an epson 9600printer with cone piezography B+W ink sets. I am interested in knowing your experience with respect to set up, image quality with different papers and clogging issues. Is the set up any better than a 9800 with epson drivers and ink.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 07:39:23 am »

Quote
I would like to hear from anyone that is using or has used an epson 9600printer with cone piezography B+W ink sets. I am interested in knowing your experience with respect to set up, image quality with different papers and clogging issues. Is the set up any better than a 9800 with epson drivers and ink.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There are a lot of B&W inkset users and there is first hand expertise on the Digital B&W list.

You will find Roy Harrington of QTR fame there, Paul Roark with his MIS inkset developments and even Jon Cone from time to time.

[a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/[/url]

more specific for QTR:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/

and there is a piezography list as well.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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Bruce Watson

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2008, 09:28:11 am »

Quote
I would like to hear from anyone that is using or has used an epson 9600printer with cone piezography B+W ink sets. I am interested in knowing your experience with respect to set up, image quality with different papers and clogging issues. Is the set up any better than a 9800 with epson drivers and ink.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215579\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm using the Cone PiezoTones (four inks, one generation down from the current k6/k7 inksets) in a 7600. Close enough, yes?

How do you define "better?" The gray inks have a consistent tone from shadows to highlights, where the Epson color inks do not. Over time the color inks are subject to differential fading where the yellow, magenta, and cyan inks fade at different rates causing odd but interesting color casts. But it might take (many) decades for this to show up. The PiezoTones show very little metamerism for me, where the color inks show more.

From a tonality standpoint, the PiezoTones are nice and smooth, smoother than B&W prints made from color inks. Some people are more sensitive to this than others.

The Cone inks are for matte papers only. If you want glossy papers, Cone's inks aren't what you are looking for.

It takes more effort to run the Cone inks. The Epson driver can't do it, you have to use a third party driver (or RIP) designed to handle all the gray inks. Roy Harrington has done an amazing job with QTR which he has made available as shareware on the web. StudioPrint is much more expensive, but you get some ease of use and considerably more control of how ink is laid down on the paper with StudioPrint. Is the extra control worth the extra money? Something you'll have to answer for yourself.

I've seen prints made with the current generation K7s from a 9600. The guy printing was a true master printer, and the prints were amazing. He's made a number of tests printing the same file with the K7s and a 9800 using the K3s. Side by side the K7s are quite noticeably better. As in sharper, smoother, much better highlights (detail and smoothness), and better shadow detail.

But again, if you really need the deeper blacks you can get from prints on glossier papers, the K7s aren't for you. But if you want the best B&W you can currently get, the K7s are currently the best inkset going -- IMHO. Clearly you should do your own research and your own testing (get a file printed several different ways and make your own evaluation and decisions) because YMMV. It all depends on how you see and what you value, and no one can tell you about those things but you.

Part of that research is to delve into the archives for the Yahoo groups that Ernst lists. There have also been some interesting discussions of the pros and cons of various printing techniques on the LargeFormatPhotography.info website forums. I remember someone (almost positive it was Tyler) posting some excellent examples -- print scans from Epson K3s and Cone K7s to show how much color ink was used in making the Epson "B&W" print. I just can't put my fingers on that thread right now for some reason (memory like a sieve most likely)  
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 09:30:32 am by Bruce Watson »
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Bruce Watson
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TylerB

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2008, 07:34:39 pm »

Quote
I would like to hear from anyone that is using or has used an epson 9600printer with cone piezography B+W ink sets. I am interested in knowing your experience with respect to set up, image quality with different papers and clogging issues. Is the set up any better than a 9800 with epson drivers and ink.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have the similar setup as Bruce, with the Peizotones in a 9600 using StudioPrint, and also a 7800 with the K7 Selenium set. Using QTR and the supplied paper curves from Cone, the K6/7 is very easy setup to use. I've set it up in more than one situation and am always surprised how well the inks perform immediately upon install. My 9800 with Epson OEM inks require far more cleanings than the 7800 K7 setup. QTR and the supplied curves designed by Cone Editions work very easily and perform well, we had people printing out of a little 1400 Cone/QTR setup in minutes at a recent workshop.
The older Peizotone setup in the 9600 requires a bit occasional cleanings, but still less than the 9800 w/OEM inks. That setup is more complex, with the RIP, and with a dual hue setup.
I don't want to try to sell you on one of these setups or sound like I'm hyping them. "Better" is a difficult proposition and subject to opinion and qualification.
As Bruce said, for gloss these are not appropriate setups. For matte, in terms of resolution, smoothness, longevity, and just plain subjective beauty, these are better in my opinion than the Epson drivers and ink for matte B&W photographic output.
Tyler
[a href=\"http://www.custom-digital.com/]http://www.custom-digital.com/[/url]
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Geoff Wittig

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 08:44:41 am »

Quote
I don't want to try to sell you on one of these setups or sound like I'm hyping them. "Better" is a difficult proposition and subject to opinion and qualification.
As Bruce said, for gloss these are not appropriate setups. For matte, in terms of resolution, smoothness, longevity, and just plain subjective beauty, these are better in my opinion than the Epson drivers and ink for matte B&W photographic output.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215716\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have a question for Mr. Boley-
I've been using an HP Z3100 for the past year or so, and I've been very pleased with the quality of black & white prints from it. I have a redundant Epson 7600 currently gathering dust. Is the quality of a print from the Epson 7600 running Cone inks through something like QTR significantly better than what I can get with the HP Z3100 on matte paper? I'm not sure I want to wrestle with Studioprint given the relatively low volume of printing I do. However, if a print on something like Hahnemüle Photo rag with Cone inks from QTR on the Epson 7600 is substantially better than what the Z3100 can do, I might be tempted to try it.

I confess that I'm a bit gun-shy after miserable experiences with older iterations of Piezography, mostly involving repeated & eventually fatal head-clogs together with unpleasant color shifts in the green direction months after printing.
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TylerB

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 01:44:37 pm »

Geoff, I also replied to your post at my site and I don't want to take the roll of an advocate for particular products on public forums. Obviously I am a very enthusiastic user of the Cone ink systems.
The nicest photo surface B&W inkjet prints I've seen are from the HP, the nicest matte from dedicated monochromatic systems. John Dean has both setups and he might not mind being asked for a opinion-
http://deanimaging.com/index.php

Many of us early mono ink printers went through the era of the first ink sets, I know what you mean. Those days are long gone, and it's too bad that impression still hangs in the air. The inks perform marvelously now.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/
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Geoff Wittig

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Epson 9600 and Cone Piezography B+W inks
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 01:15:53 pm »

Quote
Geoff, I also replied to your post at my site and I don't want to take the roll of an advocate for particular products on public forums. Obviously I am a very enthusiastic user of the Cone ink systems.
The nicest photo surface B&W inkjet prints I've seen are from the HP, the nicest matte from dedicated monochromatic systems. John Dean has both setups and he might not mind being asked for a opinion-
http://deanimaging.com/index.php

Many of us early mono ink printers went through the era of the first ink sets, I know what you mean. Those days are long gone, and it's too bad that impression still hangs in the air. The inks perform marvelously now.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks so much for the reply. I'm pondering the options. I find that the more printing I do and the longer I photograph, the more I like black & white and the more garish or vapid color work seems by comparison.
Geoff.
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