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Author Topic: Focus issues with movements  (Read 3148 times)

Martin Kristiansen

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Focus issues with movements
« on: August 14, 2008, 11:05:24 am »

It has been years since I used a view camera. Now I am using a Cambo with a Aptus 75. I have been doing stitches of Cityscapes and Landscapes using back movements.

The problem I find is that when I use rising back I lose focus. In the old days with film I never stitched and would always check focus after using any movements and adjust so this was not an issue. Now with stitching I set up the shot and then move the back into place. I need to work quickly of course what with clouds moving and light changing so it is not practical to refocus for every stitch movement. I don't get why the focus shifts at all to be honest. It is just a rising and drop that causes it and only when the front and back standards are not parallel.

Thanks
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Streetwise

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2008, 11:15:02 am »

Sounds like it could be the camera? I've  stitched with my Leaf Aptus 65 on a Sinar P2, and a studio Sinar 54H on a Sinar P3 and have had no focus issues with shifting the back. What aperture are you shooting at?

The other thing would be "what lens?" and how big of an image circle does it have? Perhaps you're shifting outside of the circle? Just some thoughts.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 11:16:59 am by Streetwise »
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mtomalty

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2008, 11:30:07 am »

Martin

By your description it sounds,to me,like your standards are not perfectly parallel.

Perhaps you could do a test which would involve shooting a sequence of frames where you
shift incrementally and see if the resulting frames get progressively worse with increased shift.


Mark
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tho_mas

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 12:03:27 pm »

Quote
Now with stitching I set up the shot and then move the back into place. I need to work quickly of course what with clouds moving and light changing so it is not practical to refocus for every stitch movement. I don't get why the focus shifts at all to be honest. It is just a rising and drop that causes it and only when the front and back standards are not parallel.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215005\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Is the center image in focus and just the shifted images are not? Which lens do you use and at which aperture?
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Martin Kristiansen

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 01:27:27 am »

Thanks everyone. I am using a Schneider Apo Digitar 90mm mostly. As I said in my post it only occurs when the standards are not parallel. My ignorance is clearly showing here as it seems this is normal. My view camera technique is obviously letting me down. I was hoping to be able to stitch while using front tilt and so on to hold focus. The first or middle image is sharp but as I shift up or down I lose focus. Is there a way around this I wonder? The other lenses I use are a 47mm and 180 mm. All Apo Digitars.

I am having a blast working with the Cambo but need to sharpen up my skills. What book recommendations does anyone have for this?

Thanks again everyone.
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klane

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2008, 01:31:19 am »

What cambo model are you using?
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Martin Kristiansen

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2008, 01:49:27 am »

I am using the Ultima. Designed for digital use I believe.
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Kumar

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 02:21:23 am »

Quote
I was hoping to be able to stitch while using front tilt and so on to hold focus. The first or middle image is sharp but as I shift up or down I lose focus. Is there a way around this I wonder?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What are you using for focusing? Assuming you tilt the front standard to get more dof, you would need to focus with a larger groundglass, get the picture sharp on the groundglass, then use only the back rise/fall and shift movements to stitch.

Leslie Stroebel's book on the view camera would be your best bet. The Sinar Photo Know How book is also excellent, with practical examples and exercises.

Cheers,
Kumar
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Streetwise

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 09:00:50 am »

Martin,

I didn't catch the part in your first post about your standards not being parallel. Yes, I'm sure that's it.

I second Leslie Stroebel's book "View Camera Techniques". He was my "materials and process" instructor at RIT.

Dave
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 09:01:17 am by Streetwise »
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David WM

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 09:04:30 am »

Maybe the Swing/tilt is either not quite neutral or the neutral position is not accurate. If this is what is happening you should expect the same amount of focus shift each time you do it, so if you can't correct it then you may be able to predict the adjustments needed.  The swing / tilt on the Ultima doesn't have a lock on it so if the gears are a bit worn perhaps the neutral position is not neutral.
David
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routlaw

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 11:57:12 am »

Quote
It has been years since I used a view camera. Now I am using a Cambo with a Aptus 75. I have been doing stitches of Cityscapes and Landscapes using back movements.

The problem I find is that when I use rising back I lose focus. In the old days with film I never stitched and would always check focus after using any movements and adjust so this was not an issue. Now with stitching I set up the shot and then move the back into place. I need to work quickly of course what with clouds moving and light changing so it is not practical to refocus for every stitch movement. I don't get why the focus shifts at all to be honest. It is just a rising and drop that causes it and only when the front and back standards are not parallel.

Martin

I also use the Cambo Ultima for this very same situation, however as yet I do not own an MFDB, but do this with the Nikon D3 for now and have had great success in the studio as well as on location with landscapes. So you should be able to pull this off with your Aptus as well.

The first thing I would check if you have not done so already is to just make sure the chip plane is being accurately focused in the first place. The rear standard or block has 3 small set screws to allow fore and aft adjustments on different backs to accommodate differences in manufacturers tolerances. So try focusing on something such as a brick wall with lens wide open in a controlled situation first to make sure you are getting accurate flat plane focus. One thing I have found using this system is that focus really does become hyper critical. With my own Ultima I constantly have to tilt the front standard forward just a hair to obtain accurate corner to corner flat plane focus such as photographing a painting.

Once you have that dialed in then proceed to stitched images but with a slightly different technique than you were used to when photographing with large sheet film. The way I have done this once a scene is setup is to shift upwards the rear standard as far as the scene requires with the correct amount of forward tilt to bring foreground into focus, then drop the rear standard down as far as needed again to check focus for distant objects. It might take a few iterations before you get it right and often I just take a guess at the degrees I think will be needed for correct foreground to infinity focus and make minute adjustments from there. At first it can be frustrating for sure but once you get the hang of it should go fairly quickly with time. The point is you can't just use the one "centered" frame for your focus because you have no idea until shifting up or down where those tilts will play out on the larger film or "chip plane".

I used my backyard for practice dozens of times earlier in the year to reduced the frustration factor once actually in the field. It made a huge difference.

Normally I would not post a non MFDB image on this forum but in this case just for illustration I am showing one image from the D3/Cambo Ultima setup using a Rodenstock 105mm Digital lens with 9 frames stitched, 3 rows and 3 columns, with only the rear movement of the D3. I have printed this image 24x36 and it looked amazingly good even much better than I would have guessed. The final edited 8 bit file size was 150 mb.

Hope this helps.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Focus issues with movements
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2008, 07:39:20 am »

Quote
Martin

I also use the Cambo Ultima for this very same situation, however as yet I do not own an MFDB, but do this with the Nikon D3 for now and have had great success in the studio as well as on location with landscapes. So you should be able to pull this off with your Aptus as well.

Fantastic and sorted I think. I thought it could be the back position as you said. I had it set to the "neatest flush" position. The compulsive in me I guess. I think I have it all worked out now thanks to all the advice. I will also buy that book mentioned in this thread.

thanks again everyone.
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