CS3 CM bug?

[Scho]

Printing to an Epson 4000 on an intel mac (10.5.4) with Epson driver v.3.09 using application (CS3) managed CM workflow produces a classic double profiling situation (eg. strong magenta cast in print).  Using same image file and icc profile and printing from Lightroom 2.0 print is perfect.  Seems like a driver conflict with CS3.  Is Adobe likely to fix this or not?

[wolfnowl]

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27238

Might want to ask Tom Hogarty at Adobe directly.

[madmanchan]

Do you have the latest CS3 update?

[Scho]

Do you have the latest CS3 update?
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I think so - version 10.0.1 is what I'm using.

[digitaldog]

I think so - version 10.0.1 is what I'm using.
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More importantly, do you have Leopard drivers? I didn't think that printer had one.

[Scho]

More importantly, do you have Leopard drivers? I didn't think that printer had one.
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The driver (3.0.9) is Leopard compatible but qualified as having "limited printing support".  As I noted above it works just fine in Lightroom 2.0, but not in CS3 10.0.1.  I found the following on the Adobe web site which seems to indicate they are passing the buck to Epson on this issue.
[a href=\"http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb400878&sliceId=2]http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewConten...00878&sliceId=2[/url]

[na goodman]

I know you have the latest version but did you follow this procedure after applying the adobe update:
To prepare your computer for printing with the Photoshop 10.0.1 update, please follow these simple steps:
1. Install the Photoshop update.  
2. Delete your printer.
3. Re-add your printer via the OS Print Control Panel (Win) or Printer Setup (Mac).
4. Install profiles for both the printer and paper you’re going to use.
5. Delete your Photoshop Preferences. To do this, launch the application while holding down Ctrl+Alt+Shift

(Windows) or Command+Option+Shift (Mac OS), then click Yes to the message, “Delete the Adobe Photoshop
Settings file?”

You may want to try it. I had to do this on a client's 2200 and it worked running Leopard on a ppc G5

[digitaldog]

The driver (3.0.9) is Leopard compatible but qualified as having "limited printing support".  As I noted above it works just fine in Lightroom 2.0, but not in CS3 10.0.1.  I found the following on the Adobe web site which seems to indicate they are passing the buck to Epson on this issue.
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewConten...00878&sliceId=2
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That's so odd. My understanding from someone who posted elsewhere was there wasn't a Leopard version for the 4000. I don't know, I don't have that printer.

Also my experience with a non Leopard then Leopard driver, at least with an R1900 was the opposite. Non Leopard driver worked OK in Photoshop, not in LR. Updated to Leopard driver, both printed the same. Very strange.

Its clear however that the print path in PS and LR are different. That isn't to say you can't get identical output when everything is working properly.

[Scho]

I know you have the latest version but did you follow this procedure after applying the adobe update:
To prepare your computer for printing with the Photoshop 10.0.1 update, please follow these simple steps:
1. Install the Photoshop update. 
2. Delete your printer.
3. Re-add your printer via the OS Print Control Panel (Win) or Printer Setup (Mac).
4. Install profiles for both the printer and paper you’re going to use.
5. Delete your Photoshop Preferences. To do this, launch the application while holding down Ctrl+Alt+Shift

(Windows) or Command+Option+Shift (Mac OS), then click Yes to the message, “Delete the Adobe Photoshop
Settings file?”

You may want to try it. I had to do this on a client's 2200 and it worked running Leopard on a ppc G5
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214978\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I did all of that and additionally tried re-installing both CS3 and the Epson driver.  No difference CS3 and this Epson driver (3.0.9) don't work together.

[Scho]

That's so odd. My understanding from someone who posted elsewhere was there wasn't a Leopard version for the 4000. I don't know, I don't have that printer.

Also my experience with a non Leopard then Leopard driver, at least with an R1900 was the opposite. Non Leopard driver worked OK in Photoshop, not in LR. Updated to Leopard driver, both printed the same. Very strange.

Its clear however that the print path in PS and LR are different. That isn't to say you can't get identical output when everything is working properly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214987\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is indeed very strange.  Adobe is clearly aware of the problem and suggest either using printer CM or contacting Epson for a new driver.  I'll just forget about doing any printing from CS3 to the 4000 and use Lightroom 2.0 instead.  Here is the Adobe recommendation:

"When you choose Photoshop Manages Color (Photoshop CS3) or Let Photoshop Determine Colors (Photoshop CS2) in the Print dialog box and correctly disable Color Management in the printer, the Epson Stylus printer drivers ignore the profile information and double color profiles. This results in over saturated images or images with a color cast.

To avoid this issue, select the option to let the printer manage colors. Contact Epson to find out if they have a newer printer driver available for your printer."

[digitaldog]

Let Printer Manage color is kind of the last ditch effort to get something to work but usually not a good idea or solution.

[eronald]

Let Printer Manage color is kind of the last ditch effort to get something to work but usually not a good idea or solution.
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Any profiled workflow will only work until the machinery gets corrupted, which happens darn fast.

At the ICC meetings, exasperation with the unpredictability of inkjet drivers is reaching new heights. It's time that the big 5 (A, A, E, C, HP) sit down in a room and decide that they will create  an inkjet datapath that can be validated.

James Vogh of Xrite has demoed some probe profiles that can be used to see what's going on, but AFAIK these aren't distributed at this point.

FLAMEON

 Instructions as above are nice, but one never knows whether the system is now ok, or whether one has forgotten a step. Diagnostic tools are a necessity.

FLAMEOFF

Edmund

[digitaldog]

At the ICC meetings, exasperation with the unpredictability of inkjet drivers is reaching new heights. It's time that the big 5 (A, A, E, C, HP) sit down in a room and decide that they will create  an inkjet datapath that can be validated.

James Vogh of Xrite has demoed some probe profiles that can be used to see what's going on, but AFAIK these aren't distributed at this point.

Trying to place the blame on inkjets is pretty simplistic when its the drivers along with the OS and applications that have to all behave here or Jame's files (which I have) point to a disconnect.

I think you may be misunderstanding what these files are for or what they do. They don't tell you where to place the blame, only that the path is hosed.

[eronald]

Trying to place the blame on inkjets is pretty simplistic when its the drivers along with the OS and applications that have to all behave here or Jame's files (which I have) point to a disconnect.

I think you may be misunderstanding what these files are for or what they do. They don't tell you where to place the blame, only that the path is hosed.
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The driver and systems and apps were mostly cooperating ; now suddenly the situation has deteriorated. Why ? Does it matter ?

Why point fingers ? the apps and the OS and the drivers just aren't working well together anymore.

Time for all of these guys, OS, App, and printer  to get TOGETHER and sort it out.

Robert Krawitz who makes the open-sourced Gutenprint RIP has been updating his inkjet drivers, and designed some very interesting techniques to check that the output remains the same. I find it amusing that when I suggest to industry people that they build such in - checks that the system hasn't got corrupted by "newer better versions" - all they do is explain "why" this is impossible.

BTW I think there's a consensus that the users find the print interfaces confusing and these need to be revised.

Finally, I do find it strange that the profiled workflow keeps getting totally hosed but the "Printer Managed" workflows always produce acceptable customer quality.

Edmund

[Ernst Dinkla]

"When you choose Photoshop Manages Color (Photoshop CS3) or Let Photoshop Determine Colors (Photoshop CS2) in the Print dialog box and correctly disable Color Management in the printer, the Epson Stylus printer drivers ignore the profile information and double color profiles. This results in over saturated images or images with a color cast.
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There are some issues with Qimage's CM but the choices for which part of the chain to the printer does what on CM is quite clear. Qimage gives 3 choices:

Qimage CM off and it will not send the assigned image profile to the printer driver's CM either so if the last is only triggered by an assigned profile it shouldn't act either. If the driver CM assumes no assigned profile means I should treat it as sRGB you still can get its influence. With driver's CM off there should be no influence from either CM.

Qimage's Let Printer/Driver manage color will shut Qimage's CM off but allow the assigned image profile to reach the driver's CM as can be expected. If the printer CM is set off you know where the fault lies.

Selecting a printer profile in Qimage will activate Qimage's CM and no assigned image profile is going to the driver's CM. If you still have printer driver CM on then you know where the fault is and I guess if the driver CM acts in that case it will again assume that the space is sRGB.

It may take more checks but at least there's some transparency in that system and with profile assigned images, Qimage CM on and printer driver's CM off  it is convenient enough. For the rare occasions where no profile is assigned to the image file and when Qinage can not make an intelligent guess based on the EXIF data the Qimage CM on default is sRGB but it can be changed to another choice when the user has better information than Qimage gets.



Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]