Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Pre Photokina Troll  (Read 8434 times)

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Pre Photokina Troll
« on: August 07, 2008, 09:22:43 pm »

-  A back that can do decent ISO 1000
-  A decent screen on any back
-  Multi-point AF
-  A color matched (black) Sinar Hy6.
-  A Rolleiflex with a Phase back
- A Hasselblad body that can take other backs and correct the 28
-  A sharp fast (F2) lens on a Mamiya.

Hope I'm wrong. Do correct me.
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

ron203

  • Guest
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2008, 09:52:19 pm »

Don't you guys get sick of harping on the same issues day in and day out? I mean most of these same issues are probably in 20 simultaneous threads right now. Sure these points are important, but this forum is just as boring as as can be with new threads to point out what has been stated in every other thread......zzzzzz.....
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 09:57:15 pm by ron203 »
Logged

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2008, 10:16:40 pm »

Quote
Don't you guys get sick of harping on the same issues day in and day out? I mean most of these same issues are probably in 20 simultaneous threads right now. Sure these points are important, but this forum is just as boring as as can be with new threads to point out what has been stated in every other thread......zzzzzz.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I agree.  Sometimes I'm as guilty as the rest.

Photography is such a wonderful art.  

maybe we should expore what can be done with a 2:3 format rather than what can't, what does 60 something megapixels give us (at least probably no moire) and we always have other systems to fill in the blanks.



JR
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 12:52:34 am by James R Russell »
Logged

gwhitf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 855
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2008, 11:00:22 pm »

Quote
Sure these points are important, but
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For the record, the SOLE reason that I post anything here is that I hope that maybe there is a company R&D representative reading this forum, and maybe, just maybe, there might be someone taking notes on what an advertising photographer needs, in terms of camera features.

I am in the middle of a five-day job right now, and I simply refused to shoot tethered -- I'm forcing the AD to simply look at the back of the camera. He hates it, and I know he hates it, but I simply don't care. Even with this 1ds3 nice LCD, it's still way too small, but it is what it is. I just hope that someone at Canon (or any MF company) could attend an advertising shoot, where the photographer needs to show an AD the setup, but without the ball-and-chain of a tethering setup. I wish they'd design a plug-in external screen that the AD could hold, something along the size of an iphone screen.

So, to be clear, I'm hoping to talk to company R&D people -- not to other photographers.
Logged

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2008, 12:50:15 am »

Quote
For the record, the SOLE reason that I post anything here is that I hope that maybe there is a company R&D representative reading this forum, and maybe, just maybe, there might be someone taking notes on what an advertising photographer needs, in terms of camera features.

I am in the middle of a five-day job right now, and I simply refused to shoot tethered -- I'm forcing the AD to simply look at the back of the camera. He hates it, and I know he hates it, but I simply don't care. Even with this 1ds3 nice LCD, it's still way too small, but it is what it is. I just hope that someone at Canon (or any MF company) could attend an advertising shoot, where the photographer needs to show an AD the setup, but without the ball-and-chain of a tethering setup. I wish they'd design a plug-in external screen that the AD could hold, something along the size of an iphone screen.

So, to be clear, I'm hoping to talk to company R&D people -- not to other photographers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213791\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I think the manufacturers know what we say and what we want.   I am just not sure that what is mentioned on this forum translates to their actual buyer.

It's kind of a catch 22.

On one hand if they don't put their resources into higher megapixel backs the point spread between medium format and the dslrs is not that big.  

So, whether any of us like it or not, I believe size matters.

I've done it, I've said "yea that's a 30mpx back" to somewhat quiet any doubts an AD or production guy might have.  Maybe someday I'll have to say yea, that's a 50 mpx back.

And let's be realistic.  For a lot of what the backs are used for the lighting is fixed and abundant, the AD's do want to see the digital polaroid on a 30" screen and the retouchers want the largest file possible to work with.

For me, I think some of this is overkill, or actually not really needed, but I'm not talking about what I want, I talking about what my clients may want, or my client's retoucher, or the production department.

Now the catch 22 is if Leaf, or Phase made a 22mpx back that went to high iso and had a great lcd (and some kind of small wireless preview), would they sell more backs and if they sell a lot more backs, would the prices get lower?

I don't know.  I'd like to think it would, but the reality may be that most people that buy in the Canon 1ds3 price range might not see the point of spending 3 or 4k more just for a different camera.

Still, I would love a seperate device that is small, like an Iphone for a digital polaroid.  

This week we are packing for two projects.

The cases total 14.  Of the 14, 5 cases are cameras, computers and monitors.  Maybe 5 out of 14 isn't that big of a deal, until you think about setting up all of those computers and screens, mostly just to give us a polaroid, it really does make you wish there was a portable viewing device dedicated for our use.

JR
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 01:13:44 am by James R Russell »
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2008, 01:07:25 am »

Quote
I think the manufacturers know what we say and what we want.   I am just not sure that what is mentioned on this forum translates to their actual buyer.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213810\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

this week I was conversing with my good friend who is a very good photographer in Paris.

he started in digital many years ago using the lightphase back and due to money moved into the 35mm digital cameras instead of purchasing a newer digital back.

he did well but missed photographing with medium format.

three months ago he bought a new digital back for his hasselblad v camera.

he said his work has improved   more imporant he said clients have called him to thank him for the quality of his files and for using such a nice camera  they did appreciate seeing the image on the big computer screen.

he also said he has received more repeat business  he is more booked on projects than ever.

now I would not think it is only because of the camera   it surpised that he felt it made such a big difference.

my friend may be the person the digital medium format corporations are selling there cameras to.

when i shoot digital i shoot with the eos canons mk III.   I think they are very good and do everything i need.

I do admit that my friends comments make me think about the larger digital cameras.

bcooter
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 01:10:07 am by bcooter »
Logged

John_Black

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
    • http://www.pebbleplace.com
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 02:50:46 pm »

Quote
For the record, the SOLE reason that I post anything here is that I hope that maybe there is a company R&D representative reading this forum, and maybe, just maybe, there might be someone taking notes on what an advertising photographer needs, in terms of camera features.

I am in the middle of a five-day job right now, and I simply refused to shoot tethered -- I'm forcing the AD to simply look at the back of the camera. He hates it, and I know he hates it, but I simply don't care. Even with this 1ds3 nice LCD, it's still way too small, but it is what it is. I just hope that someone at Canon (or any MF company) could attend an advertising shoot, where the photographer needs to show an AD the setup, but without the ball-and-chain of a tethering setup. I wish they'd design a plug-in external screen that the AD could hold, something along the size of an iphone screen.

So, to be clear, I'm hoping to talk to company R&D people -- not to other photographers.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you're shooting a 1Ds3, why not use the WFT-E2A ([a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484819-REG/Canon_1906B002_WFT_E2A_Wireless_File_Transmitter.html/BI/2280/KBID/3041]B&H Product Link[/url]) with a smallish laptop.  I have not used this transmitter, so I'm not sure how quickly images appear, etc (guessing 3 to 5 seconds per image).
Logged

marcwilson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 411
    • http://www.marcwilson.co.uk
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2008, 07:46:06 am »

I think brightscreen make a 7 inch viewer that tethers to the camera...never heard of anyone using one but...
Logged
www.marcwilson.co.uk [url=http://www.mar

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2008, 09:13:18 am »

Quote
I think brightscreen make a 7 inch viewer that tethers to the camera...never heard of anyone using one but...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I don't know about the 1ds3, but using the video out port on a 1ds2 blanks out the camera lcd and the video signal sent to any lcd, is challanged at best.  

All of this is kind of surprising that we don't have a simpler form of portable tethering, given the fact that we live in a world of i-phone lcds, that cost $200.

gwhitf is right in the fact there are times that tethering affects the shot.  It's hard to explain, but being tied down to the computer makes just walking across the room and looking at another angle difficult, or just kills the inspiration.

Like those dogs with those electronic shock collars, you eventually get trained not to go past that 25' mark or disaster strikes.

And if you unplug, you have the art director 6 inches behind you trying to see the blink of the lcd when you fire a frame.

The AD wants to see the shot.  I don't blame them, I would too, especially if my job was on the line and at times nothing beats a 30" monitor, but a lot of times even if it was wireless, waiting for that computer and cart and power and wires is just way too much and once again kills the inpiration.

I'm not an engineer, but is it really that difficult to send a small jpeg to a wireless device like an Ipod touch, or an Iphone?

I knew people that had hacked their Iphone in the first 15 minutes of owning it.

Myabe we keep bring this up, but until you work in one of those situations where showing an electronic polaroid is difficult or next to impossible, you would understand how important some type of detailed portable viewer is.

Leaf was very close with their wireless deivce though I guess those Ipaqs have gone away.



JR
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 09:26:49 am by James R Russell »
Logged

gwhitf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 855
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2008, 09:18:30 am »

Quote
If you're shooting a 1Ds3, why not use the WFT-E2A (B&H Product Link)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213964\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bought it, tested it, fought with it, returned it. It's nowhere ready for prime time. Rube Goldberg, at best.

Avoid.
Logged

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2008, 09:33:17 am »

Quote
Bought it, tested it, fought with it, returned it. It's nowhere ready for prime time. Rube Goldberg, at best.

Avoid.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214081\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Somebody is going to evetually do this.  Where we just turn it on and the jpeg goes around the room or maybe around the world.

I really think in a few years we will look back at the magliner, computer and digital tech and think "we carried all of that stuff just to see a polaroid?"



JR
Logged

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2008, 01:19:11 pm »

Quote
Somebody is going to evetually do this.  Where we just turn it on and the jpeg goes around the room or maybe around the world.

I really think in a few years we will look back at the magliner, computer and digital tech and think "we carried all of that stuff just to see a polaroid?"
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think the new phase plus backs are about to go wireless any day now. About a year ago when "they" were trying to sell me a P21 plus instead of the regular one they said it was ready for wireless and it was about to happen. Funny that, broken promises from a camera company...
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2008, 11:23:55 pm »

Quote
I think the new phase plus backs are about to go wireless any day now. About a year ago when "they" were trying to sell me a P21 plus instead of the regular one they said it was ready for wireless and it was about to happen. Funny that, broken promises from a camera company...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Or maybe they've just given up on the idea ?
AFAIK the Leaf backs all have a functional Bluetooth link which isn't used.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 10, 2008, 11:24:34 pm by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Juanito

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 241
    • John Raymond Mireles
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2008, 12:25:44 am »

Ok. Has anyone used the ipaq with the leaf back? The ipaq's are cheap on ebay but I haven't heard about anyone actually using one.

John

shutay

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
    • http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2008, 02:32:54 pm »

Quote
Ok. Has anyone used the ipaq with the leaf back? The ipaq's are cheap on ebay but I haven't heard about anyone actually using one.

John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Even brand new iPaqs are pretty cheap... but does the viewer application work with the newer iPaqs too, or only iPaqs of the same vintage of the time when they introduced it?
Logged

yaya

  • Guest
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2008, 02:54:27 pm »

Quote
Even brand new iPaqs are pretty cheap... but does the viewer application work with the newer iPaqs too, or only iPaqs of the same vintage of the time when they introduced it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214465\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is from the Leaf WiView app current product documentation:

Leaf WiView

Leaf WiView provides Bluetooth® connectivity between your imaging module and an HP® iPAQ® Pocket PC. Using the wireless Leaf WiView application, you or your assistant/ Art Director/ Client can view and work with images on an iPAQ Pocket PC as you shoot.
WiView version 1.0.3 includes support for Microsoft® Windows Mobile® version 6 and VGA resolution, and supports the following iPAQ Pocket PC models:

hx2100
hx2400
hx2700
hx4700
rx5900
110
210


Yair
Logged

Juanito

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 241
    • John Raymond Mireles
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2008, 03:30:11 pm »

One more question: Is the ipaq resolution the same as the resolution on the aptus lcd?

JM

PdF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 297
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2008, 05:20:14 pm »

Why could'nt we see a large screen on the backside of the MFDB ? Something like the iPhone ...

The 4 principal players are quite ready for the game. Only one did'nt not yet reveal his cards.

PdF
Logged
PdF

elitegroup

  • Guest
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2008, 09:15:16 pm »

Quote
This is from the Leaf WiView app current product documentation:

Leaf WiView

Leaf WiView provides Bluetooth® connectivity between your imaging module and an HP® iPAQ® Pocket PC. Using the wireless Leaf WiView application, you or your assistant/ Art Director/ Client can view and work with images on an iPAQ Pocket PC as you shoot.
WiView version 1.0.3 includes support for Microsoft® Windows Mobile® version 6 and VGA resolution, and supports the following iPAQ Pocket PC models:

hx2100
hx2400
hx2700
hx4700
rx5900
110
210


Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yair, is this a real world viable solution?? I've never heard/seen anyone using Wiview Bluetooth® to an iPAQ Pocket PC with Leaf back/camera?? do you know some one using this set up we can refer to for more info??

After reading Frank's very good review on the Leaf AFi 7 I would seriously re-consider Leaf if the WiView is consistent, stable, doesn't crash and works reliably without to many issues.  

Is there a video demonstration of this set up anywhere??

Thanks  
Logged

shutay

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
    • http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/
Pre Photokina Troll
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2008, 10:50:01 pm »

Quote
This is from the Leaf WiView app current product documentation:
----snip!----
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Yair.

Quote
One more question: Is the ipaq resolution the same as the resolution on the aptus lcd?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=214477\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Most iPaqs have a screen resolution of 320 x 240. Mine has a square 240 x 240 display to match my Ixpress 96C's square sensor!  

As far as I know, most digicam screens of the 1.8", 2"and 2.2" diagonal variety appear to be what the manufacturers call 230K pixel screens, which translates to essentially a 320 x 240 array of R, G and B pixels ( (320 x 3) x 240 = 230,400 ), which is what the Canon EOS 40D and Nikon D200 have for screens. So that means that the iPaq display shows pretty much the same number of image pixels but on a larger, 3-inch or 3.5-inch display. So same, but bigger pixels.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up