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Author Topic: Sinar Hy6/e75LV (gen. II) is now complete  (Read 2432 times)

bradleygibson

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Sinar Hy6/e75LV (gen. II) is now complete
« on: August 02, 2008, 01:56:43 pm »

My upgraded Sinar e75LV has arrived with a revolving mount for Hy6.  In another thread, a number of folks were commenting that they weren't able to get their hands on a Sinar Hy6/e75LV, so I thought I'd post a quick experience report.

I'm off to Iceland shooting and talking photography for 10 days starting tomorrow, so I'll get a chance to give it a good workout.

The camera:
Remarkably small and light, for a 6x6, body.  In fact, with no lens or back, the body weighs only 965g (includes the waist level finder, battery, neck and hand straps).  Replacing the WLF with the 45º prism finder bumps the weight up over 30% to 1275g (with the Sinar 45º prism finder, battery and both straps).  The 90º finder uses a mirror rather than a prism (which saves weight), but some have expressed concern over the fact that the mirrors delivers a darker view than the prism.  I do not have a 90º finder so cannot comment.

The eMotion 75LV weighs 675g complete with revolving mount adapter, battery and CF card, and just for completeness, a good beefy lens such as the Schneider-Kreuznach Tele-Xenar 180/2.8 PQ weighs in at an additional not-so-dainty 1525g.

In the hand, the camera feels very well-designed.  The grip pivots, has four stop-detents, and is large and generous, giving confidence and comfort when being held in the hand.

A word about Dealer and/or Sinar service
My Hy6 unit developed a  slight wiggle in the handle (looseness where it attaches to the camera body). When I inquired about whether a small amount of play was normal, I was told that "there should be absolutely no play whatsoever", and Sinar overnighted me a service loaner unit (the Service Loaner unit's handle does indeed have "absolutely no play whatsoever".)  I used the same packaging to return my unit for adjustment/repair.  Not a minute of downtime -- this is terrific service!  My dealer is Steve Hendrix of PPR Atlanta, and it's worth mentioning that I've been more than satisfied with Steve's support throughout my Hy6 experience.

Lenses
As anyone familiar with Rollei may know, Rollei lenses are not inexpensive.  I elected to purchase used excellent condition 6000-series and 6008AF-series lenses rather than the latest AFD series lenses.  At this time, as a rough guide, prices for the 6000-series generation lenses can be 25-50% of the price of a new AFD lens, if one is patient and shops around.  Purchasing 6008AF-series lenses chops those savings roughly in half.

Despite careful shopping and purchase of lenses in top condition, one should expect any used lens purchased to require minor servicing.   Four of the six used lenses have had issues with intermittently sticky shutters, misadjusted aperture rings, loose barrels and so on.  This is not to say that Quality Control on Rollei lenses is poor, it is just that some of these lenses (such as the Schneider Curtagon 60/3.5 PQ) may be as much as 20 years old or even more.  My service technician is Onick at Danielle, Inc. in New Jersey.  He charges $95 for a general tune up.  A typical lens repair with parts and labor has run an average of $275 total -- a very reasonable sum.

With properly functioning lenses, the Hy6 is a lovely instrument. The controls are very logically laid out and once understood are easy to recall in the field, without a manual.

The Back
I came to the Sinar eMotion 75LV after selling my Phase One P45+ on Hasselblad.  I have found there to be a number of tradeoffs which I can expand on if desired, but the most important feature for me is image quality.

I have not yet had time to measure the difference, but to my eye the Phase P45+ back produces images with lower noise at low ISO than the Sinar e75LV.  Again, subjectively, I find that the Sinar e75LV produces images with lower noise at high ISO than the P45+.

Once colors are corrected (with custom WB either during the shoot or aftwerward) produces results I can't otherwise readily distinguish from my P45+ back.

Perhaps in the context of a more complete review I can provide samples from each, to provide objective information on this topic.

The e75LV's improved screen is almost as dramatic an improvement as the P45 to P45+ screen improvement was.  Put another way, it is a big and welcome step forward.  The e75LV doesn't generate super high-quality previews, so some of the new screen's advantage is not realized, but it is very welcome, nonetheless.  

The revolving mount is so natural, one wonders why every back isn't designed this way.  Removal of the back in the field where its is often raining, snowing or where desert sand is blowing should not ever be required, but unfortunately is with most medium format designs today.

Further Sinar's revolving back design has the advantage rotating the back does not involve introducing additional moving parts into the back (which have the potential to fail while on that expedition to Antarctica, for example).  With that being said, Leaf's new LC10 internally rotating sensor has the advantage that one (at least theoretically) does not have to take one's eye away from the viewfinder to switch orientations.

The revolving mount has no detents, no locking mechanism.  Just twist 90 degrees clockwise, to go from landscape to portrait, or 90 degrees counterclockwise to go back to landscape.  The mount permits no other orientations.  It is a very solid feel, and does not have any play or flex whatsoever.  It has a stop in each orientation which prevents twisting past vertical (or horizontal) and both stops seem perfectly machined and not at all "negotiable".  All in all, it is very well done.

Anyone looking at the revolving mount for the Hy6 should be aware that Sinar's 45º finders are manufactured in such a way that the back can revolve without the viewfinder's eyepiece assembly getting in the way.  Rolleiflex Hy6 and Leaf AFi 45º finders will need to be removed in order to complete the rotation.  To understand why, simply imagine drawing a square representing the Hy6 camera body.  Then draw another square, the same size, centered on the same point at a 45º angle to the first square representing the digital back in mid-rotation.  You'll see that the second square's corners protrude--only Sinar's 45º finder accommodates this protrusion.

Workflow
It would have been nice to see a multi-channel histogram as a part of this upgrade (as Phase did with their P+ upgrade).  It is all too easy to be clipping one or two color channels and not be aware of it with a simple luminance channel histogram.

I find the workflow for Sinar files to be cumbersome, as the back does not write .DNG files to the card, but rather, back-specific data which Sinar eXposure software will later combine (it requires three files to properly create a each .DNG file).  I would much prefer to see the back generate completely packaged individual image files.

A full review
If there is interest, I'll contact Michael after returning from Iceland to discuss publishing a full experience report complete with sample photographs from this camera setup.

Best regards,
Brad
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:15:23 pm by bradleygibson »
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EricWHiss

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Sinar Hy6/e75LV (gen. II) is now complete
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2008, 11:39:16 pm »

Hi Brad,
Thanks for the update - and look forward to reading more on your return.  Have a great trip!
Eric
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Khun_K

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Sinar Hy6/e75LV (gen. II) is now complete
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2008, 11:53:41 pm »

Quote
My upgraded Sinar e75LV has arrived with a revolving mount for Hy6.  In another thread, a number of folks were commenting that they weren't able to get their hands on a Sinar Hy6/e75LV, so I thought I'd post a quick experience report.

I'm off to Iceland shooting and talking photography for 10 days starting tomorrow, so I'll get a chance to give it a good workout.

The camera:
Remarkably small and light, for a 6x6, body.  In fact, with no lens or back, the body weighs only 965g (includes the waist level finder, battery, neck and hand straps).  Replacing the WLF with the 45º prism finder bumps the weight up over 30% to 1275g (with the Sinar 45º prism finder, battery and both straps).  The 90º finder uses a mirror rather than a prism (which saves weight), but some have expressed concern over the fact that the mirrors delivers a darker view than the prism.  I do not have a 90º finder so cannot comment.

The eMotion 75LV weighs 675g complete with revolving mount adapter, battery and CF card, and just for completeness, a good beefy lens such as the Schneider-Kreuznach Tele-Xenar 180/2.8 PQ weighs in at an additional not-so-dainty 1525g.

In the hand, the camera feels very well-designed.  The grip pivots, has four stop-detents, and is large and generous, giving confidence and comfort when being held in the hand.

A word about Dealer and/or Sinar service
My Hy6 unit developed a  slight wiggle in the handle (looseness where it attaches to the camera body). When I inquired about whether a small amount of play was normal, I was told that "there should be absolutely no play whatsoever", and Sinar overnighted me a service loaner unit (the Service Loaner unit's handle does indeed have "absolutely no play whatsoever".)  I used the same packaging to return my unit for adjustment/repair.  Not a minute of downtime -- this is terrific service!  My dealer is Steve Hendrix of PPR Atlanta, and it's worth mentioning that I've been more than satisfied with Steve's support throughout my Hy6 experience.

Lenses
As anyone familiar with Rollei may know, Rollei lenses are not inexpensive.  I elected to purchase used excellent condition 6000-series and 6008AF-series lenses rather than the latest AFD series lenses.  At this time, as a rough guide, prices for the 6000-series generation lenses can be 25-50% of the price of a new AFD lens, if one is patient and shops around.  Purchasing 6008AF-series lenses chops those savings roughly in half.

Despite careful shopping and purchase of lenses in top condition, one should expect any used lens purchased to require minor servicing.   Four of the six used lenses have had issues with intermittently sticky shutters, misadjusted aperture rings, loose barrels and so on.  This is not to say that Quality Control on Rollei lenses is poor, it is just that some of these lenses (such as the Schneider Curtagon 60/3.5 PQ) may be as much as 20 years old or even more.  My service technician is Onick at Danielle, Inc. in New Jersey.  He charges $95 for a general tune up.  A typical lens repair with parts and labor has run an average of $275 total -- a very reasonable sum.

With properly functioning lenses, the Hy6 is a lovely instrument. The controls are very logically laid out and once understood are easy to recall in the field, without a manual.

The Back
I came to the Sinar eMotion 75LV after selling my Phase One P45+ on Hasselblad.  I have found there to be a number of tradeoffs which I can expand on if desired, but the most important feature for me is image quality.

I have not yet had time to measure the difference, but to my eye the Phase P45+ back produces images with lower noise at low ISO than the Sinar e75LV.  Again, subjectively, I find that the Sinar e75LV produces images with lower noise at high ISO than the P45+.

Once colors are corrected (with custom WB either during the shoot or aftwerward) produces results I can't otherwise readily distinguish from my P45+ back.

Perhaps in the context of a more complete review I can provide samples from each, to provide objective information on this topic.

The e75LV's improved screen is almost as dramatic an improvement as the P45 to P45+ screen improvement was.  Put another way, it is a big and welcome step forward.  The e75LV doesn't generate super high-quality previews, so some of the new screen's advantage is not realized, but it is very welcome, nonetheless. 

The revolving mount is so natural, one wonders why every back isn't designed this way.  Removal of the back in the field where its is often raining, snowing or where desert sand is blowing should not ever be required, but unfortunately is with most medium format designs today.

Further Sinar's revolving back design has the advantage rotating the back does not involve introducing additional moving parts into the back (which have the potential to fail while on that expedition to Antarctica, for example).  With that being said, Leaf's new LC10 internally rotating sensor has the advantage that one (at least theoretically) does not have to take one's eye away from the viewfinder to switch orientations.

The revolving mount has no detents, no locking mechanism.  Just twist 90 degrees clockwise, to go from landscape to portrait, or 90 degrees counterclockwise to go back to landscape.  The mount permits no other orientations.  It is a very solid feel, and does not have any play or flex whatsoever.  It has a stop in each orientation which prevents twisting past vertical (or horizontal) and both stops seem perfectly machined and not at all "negotiable".  All in all, it is very well done.

Anyone looking at the revolving mount for the Hy6 should be aware that Sinar's 45º finders are manufactured in such a way that the back can revolve without the viewfinder's eyepiece assembly getting in the way.  Rolleiflex Hy6 and Leaf AFi 45º finders will need to be removed in order to complete the rotation.  To understand why, simply imagine drawing a square representing the Hy6 camera body.  Then draw another square, the same size, centered on the same point at a 45º angle to the first square representing the digital back in mid-rotation.  You'll see that the second square's corners protrude--only Sinar's 45º finder accommodates this protrusion.

Workflow
It would have been nice to see a multi-channel histogram as a part of this upgrade (as Phase did with their P+ upgrade).  It is all too easy to be clipping one or two color channels and not be aware of it with a simple luminance channel histogram.

I find the workflow for Sinar files to be cumbersome, as the back does not write .DNG files to the card, but rather, back-specific data which Sinar eXposure software will later combine (it requires three files to properly create a each .DNG file).  I would much prefer to see the back generate completely packaged individual image files.

A full review
If there is interest, I'll contact Michael after returning from Iceland to discuss publishing a full experience report complete with sample photographs from this camera setup.

Best regards,
Brad
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212591\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I did not notice much difference in brightness between the waist level finder and the 45 degree finder, but since I am so used to the angle finder for all these years, I find myself going back to waist level finder some problem.  To me the angle finder is a lot better.  Since I did not shoot e75LV for outdoor enough to tell the noise level in nature light, use in studio, I find the quality is easily comparable to P45+ and H3D39 at the same ISO setting. And I like the fact to shoot DNG while tethered to computer, it makes the workflow very fast and convenient.
Since the lenses I use are mostly the later or latest generation, I have never having problem with them and particularly the 110/2 Zeiss and 180/2.8 Schneider for tight portrait composition, produce top quality result. The revolving back is just a pleasure to use.
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thsinar

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Sinar Hy6/e75LV (gen. II) is now complete
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2008, 02:30:33 am »

hi Brad,

I want to express my thanks to you for your time to write this review.

Have a nice trip to Iceland.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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