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Author Topic: Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images  (Read 21324 times)

Natasa Stojsic

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2008, 04:25:41 pm »

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funny part is as soon as I put the 110 on the Mamiya, I could see the difference on the back display, it must be something to do with the way the light exits the rear pupil.

Edmund
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eronald

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2008, 06:39:20 pm »

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My pleasure. Snapshot. Look at the way it blurs smoothly from sharp hair to blurry hair to wipeout background. No photoshopping, taken in direct sunlight.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 06:41:06 pm by eronald »
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2008, 07:14:52 pm »

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But let's also face some reality you need high ISO you may just turn to Nikon or Canon for it but I just did a runway show in NY at ISO 800 that just sings with my P25 Plus. So I guess much depends on what soup you are in on any given moment.
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I don't know what Runway Fashion show you were shooting, but if your working the Risers in Bryant Park, your gonna starve shooting anything that doesn't make a jpeg in 1 second, because by the time you correct and batch process a medium format file, those guys and girls are going to already have sold 65,000 images to Vogue, In-Style and every designer with a website and lookbook.

Tthose guys are uploading when they run between the shows.

As far as 800 iso, if your getting clean and detailed 800 iso from a p25 I'd like to know the secret, because I just wasted 4 hours of my life testing a 1ds, 1ds2, D3, p21+ and p30+ using available light and card fill for two upcoming gigs and no matter how many processors I try, the medium format backs just don't do 800 really clean.

Now one thing I noticed big time with the P backs is at high iso how sensitive they are to exposure.  1/2 stop makes a world of difference in the shadow noise and detail and it's a big difference, not a I kind of see it difference.

If medium format wants to make about $3,000 per present owner (or at least 1/2 of them) give us a clean 800 iso and at really good lcd that you can see 1/2 stop difference.



JR




I own and use two digital backs and for what they do  they are great.  

End of disclaimer.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:06:56 am by James R Russell »
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Guy Mancuso

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2008, 07:31:45 pm »

James there pretty darn clean. Not maybe Nikon ISO 800 clean but nothing to sneeze at

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2694
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eronald

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2008, 07:48:30 pm »

James,
Having done my share of fashion shows, i would prefer any day to take my original 1Ds and 85/1.2 or 200/1.8 rather than any MF kit. I had hopes, but I've changed my mind. Not with the present kit.
My stuff got published in monthlies, so no issues with timing, but I needed sharp, and the focus on the 1Ds was *fast*. As the images below show, one can get very sharp well-defined shots off the catwalk if the lens is right and the focus clicks in.
The english photographers who come over to Paris are notorious for their aggressive defense of their space, over here catwalk is a very physical job which needs sharp elbows.

Edmund



Quote
Now one thing I noticed big time with the P backs is at high iso how sensitive they are to exposure.  1/2 stop makes a world of difference in the shadow noise and detail and it's a big difference, not a I kind of see it difference.

If medium format wants to make about $5,000 per present owner (or at least 1/2 of them) give us a clean 800 iso and at really good lcd that you can see 1/2 stop difference.

I'll sign up for that upgrade today.

JR
Beginning of disclaimer.

I own and use two digital backs and for what they do and as long as there is a lot of light they are great. 

End of disclaimer.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 07:53:56 pm by eronald »
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2008, 01:05:01 am »

deleted. double post
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:05:28 am by James R Russell »
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Natasa Stojsic

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« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2008, 01:18:59 am »

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My pleasure. Snapshot. Look at the way it blurs smoothly from sharp hair to blurry hair to wipeout background. No photoshopping, taken in direct sunlight.

Edmund
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Can't complain, but the background is almost white.... I'd rather see it with the busy background!

Thanks anyway
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2008, 01:53:32 am »

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James there pretty darn clean. Not maybe Nikon ISO 800 clean but nothing to sneeze at

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2694
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I'm not saying it doesn't work for you, your images are a different style and genre to which I work, but direct light has a different effect than cross light, especially soft where the key is 3/4 back.

I've tested these things today until my eyes bleed and don't get me wrong, I want these back to work clean at 800.

I have no desire to go buy a Canon, or anything else for that matter, then again testing them next to the 1ds3 in this specific lighting, leaves no doubt which one goes to higher iso with less problem.

I also have to note  that for identical exposures, at identical iso, the Canons were about 2/3 of a stop more sensitive or allowed about 2/3's of a stop higher shutter speed.

That's a big difference, especially shooting the projects I have coming up.

Now in all fairness, the 1ds2 and 1ds1 did not fare much better than the P30+ and p21+.  The noise was more evenly spaced and less centered on the dark areas, which probably means in print it's less noticable, but they were not out of the park winners.

The 1ds3 was.

At least in todays test.

JR
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Khun_K

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2008, 02:23:03 am »

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That 80/1.2 costs as much as a 5D these days  - I don't think any 5D-only shooter who han't used one will buy it. We old guys have it, because we paid for the 1Ds and then the 85/1.2 was the price of an accessory.

Edmund
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Although I don't particular shoot lens wide open, the bright lens does have a lot of advantage for sharper focus, give the photographer more time in later of the day to shoot good focused image, and of course their quality is good. I like the 85/1.2L and it has outlived my 1Ds, and 1Ds MK2 and now serving my 1Ds MK3, the good lens is in fact to me of more value to keep than digital cameras.  
Me too agreed with James that today's trend of shooting, lens longer than 110-120mm range is somewhat a little too long, at least it is also like that for me.  I rarely need to use 140mm or 150mm, especially when we account the smaller than true 645 format, although crop factor does not really make up the true focal length of the lens.  The lens design for the format has its particular relationship for the scale between the foreground to background, the prime object to the surrounding.  I would not go a far as saying the 110/2.2 is a must, but I admit it is the most used lens for me when shooting portrait with my H3D39.  The Zeiss 110/2 for Hasselblaf FE is a good lens and I use often withe adapter on my Contax and the Rollei mount 110/2 for Hy6 is also still available new, both are not difficult to find.  But, a modern AF version would certainly be welcome.
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eronald

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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2008, 07:26:21 am »

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I have no desire to go buy a Canon, or anything else for that matter, then again testing them next to the 1ds3 in this specific lighting, leaves no doubt which one goes to higher iso with less problem.

JR
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James, without wishing to offend you, I think you should test the 1Ds3's focus carefully before you use one in a pay job; Rob Galbraith documents that the focus of the 1Ds3 is like that of the 1DIII still somewhat unreliable. The "fix" didn't really work.

[a href=\"http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9357]http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag...-8740-9068-9357[/url]

Rob has taken hundreds and hundreds of images in each of a number of sports and also lifestyle assignments, and statistically documents the number of in-focus images.  What is rather surprising is that the single point one-shot focus which we all love and use is according to him less reliable than a pulse of servo AI AF.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 07:31:52 am by eronald »
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James R Russell

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« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2008, 10:25:06 am »

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James, without wishing to offend you, I think you should test the 1Ds3's focus carefully before you use one in a pay job; Rob Galbraith documents that the focus of the 1Ds3 is like that of the 1DIII still somewhat unreliable. The "fix" didn't really work.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag...-8740-9068-9357

Rob has taken hundreds and hundreds of images in each of a number of sports and also lifestyle assignments, and statistically documents the number of in-focus images.  What is rather surprising is that the single point one-shot focus which we all love and use is according to him less reliable than a pulse of servo AI AF.

Edmund
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I've owned every Canon digital except the 1d Mark III and except for the mark2N, have found auto focus to be almost a mirror to these findings, even on stationary subjects with slight movement.

I'm actually surprised that it took so long for it to get reported, but like most things with digital it usually is scene and lighting dependent.

Consequently the Nikon D3 is like a sniper rifle in comparison, always sharp with amazing tracking ability. Really amazing in any light.

Still, as of now, (at least until the next round of Nikons are introduced) the Canon makes the best high pixel count/high iso file of anything.

For a lot of work that we do, especially on location, I can't stress enough how much higher iso and a good lcd is important for medium format.

A month back we shot a fashion gig with back window light and HMI fill into 12x rags and cards.

With the P30+ set right on the edge of usability at 400 iso and around 4.5 it was a constant situation of adding light, first for the fill, so we could actually go to 4.5 then for the background outside so we could get back to a natural balance.

Then you find yourself saying for the most part of the day, hold it, hold it, because your always running at 1/60th, locked down on a tripod.

Consequently had I shot them with a higher iso dslr camera it would have easily been a one  or two hmi day and I probably could have hand held 90% of the shoot.

Just from a pure business standpoint you increase your production load and time involvement 30%.

Add to the fact we normally shoot some motion video of each session using flash vs. hmi's means another set of lights and this compounds the costs and the time once again.

I know this is a medium format forum and everybody's hot to push the image quality of a medium format camera, but image quality in medium format takes a big dive at higher isos and don't compare medium format to film, because pushing neg film to 800 iso may have been grainy but it was pretty.  Pushing a medium format back to 800 iso and all of the converters start smearing the blacks, sometimes so much that on default settings the blacks look like oil stains.

You can change converters, play with settings sharpen in photoshop etc. etc. etc. and make it useable, but once again it's on the edge and now your post production workload has doubled.

And to top it off the lcd's just aren't reliable, so you have to be either hooked to the cart o' rocks or  a tripod with a laptop.

I've got the tripod laptop thing down to a science and since our c-1 sessions are done prior to shooting, the setup time is probably only 5 or 10 minutes at best but do that 10 times a day and you lose an hour of shooting.  A great or even semi good lcd, would be worth it's weight in gold.
(Now I've done it and road mapped another $7,000 upgrade for medium format to lay on us).

For what my Plus backs do well, they do it brilliantly.  With a lot of light and tethered, they are rock stable, the file quality is really amazing and regardless of who likes what proportion, I find the 4:3 crop to be much nicer and though nicer is a broad term it just looks more lavish and not as squeezed as 35mm.  I just think 35mm in vertical looks cheap and I don't know how to explain it but that's the way it looks to me and I loathe turning those Canons on their side and shooting a vertical.

Still, yesterday, testing all of those cameras I look at those beautiful contax's and those expensive backs and it's just a heartbreak to think those cameras will sit in a bag.

Packing up the Mark II's to sell, doesn't bother me in the least as I have no emotional attachment to those two cameras, but if I sold my contax bodies, I would be sad.

I can only speak for myself, but my attachment to cameras starts with the lenses, then the body, then the back.  Obviously the back is now the film and it must work seamlessly and without it we're shooting nothing, but my heart is with the lenses and the camera.

Maybe that's why I could never warm up to the H series blads.  They just look like they were designed by a committee, and the Mamiya also throws me because they don't feel as substantial.  Actually the only camera that I would even think about replacing the Contax with would be the Rolliflex and even if I owned Leaf or Sinar backs, I would never write that check for that camera until I was positive that any back would fit on it, because in the digital world things can change.

As much as I hate buying anything else, I just don't understand why there is not a 10 grand p21 that goes to high iso. and has a useable lcd.   Heck I'd even live with the 1.26 crop as at this point I'm use to it.

Those two features would keep the Canons off my set 90% of the time or probably make me never need to buy one in the first place.

Maybe the p65+ will give us higher iso, but since that would be all I would ever use it for, $40,000 is just way too much for a high iso camera.  In fact . . . well . . . whatever.

Maybe I'm naive, but medium format digital is the only business I know that guarantees that their customers must purchase a competitors product.

JR
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gwhitf

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« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2008, 10:38:20 am »

In the 1ds3, there is now a Custom Function that allows the User to calibrate the autofocus of the lenses. You can test and enter up to twenty "profiles" of combinations of bodies and lenses. The only limitation is, if you have two 85 1.2's, it can't tell the difference, it does it by focal length and not serial number.

So anyway, instead of being forced to send off your body and lens to Irvine, like in the 1ds2 days, you simply do a ruler test on a tripod, and adjust the Custom Function of the lens until it's hitting right on the money.

This is, of course assumes someone is shooting autofocus, which I never do, and I can't imagine James does either.

I own two 1ds3's. My two bodies are dead on the money with all of my lenses, right out of the factory, if shot on manual focus.

Whatever. If your autofocus is off, Canon now provides you a way to tweak it, without sending it to the factory. Again, a checkmark in the column for Canon, over medium format.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 10:56:04 am by gwhitf »
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James R Russell

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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2008, 11:04:16 am »

Quote
In the 1ds3, there is now a Custom Function that allows the User to calibrate the autofocus of the lenses. You can test and enter up to twenty "profiles" of combinations of bodies and lenses. The only limitation is, if you have two 85 1.2's, it can't tell the difference, it does it by focal length and not serial number.

So anyway, instead of being forced to send off your body and lens to Irvine, like in the 1ds2 days, you simply do a ruler test on a tripod, and adjust the Custom Function of the lens until it's hitting right on the money.

This is, of course assumes someone is shooting autofocus, which I never do, and I can't imagine James does either.

I own two 1ds3's, and I don't give a damn about Rob Galbraith and his night football business. My two bodies are dead on the money with all of my lenses, right out of the factory, if shot on manual focus. James does not shoot what Galbraith shoots.

Whatever. If your autofocus is off, Canon now provides you a way to tweak it, without sending it to the factory. Again, a checkmark in the column for Canon, over medium format.
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100% agree.

For most things I really don't like auto focus.  In fact I don't like much of auto anything.

Nothing tells you more about a photo than to move the focus to the eye or hand or whatever you want and see it snap into focus.

It's magic and all autofocus does is give you some general look.  Even on the most commercial of jobs I hate that general look.

Now given that I don't know why we don't have huge prisms or magnifiers or big ass waist level finders.

The Rolliflex has it, but the camera is not the issue in medium format, it's the iso and the backs.

I drop my jaw when I see all of these new announcements and the two things photographers have asked for for 5 years . . . a good lcd . . . . higher iso, is just not mentioned.

It's not like medium format doesn't have some things down really well.  The file quality with a lot o light is pretty damn amazing and if your stuck tethering all day long to that cart o' rocks, no dslr will be as easy, though it is possible.

Regardless of all of this, I have never had a conversation about cameras (in the digital age) with anyone, where at the very end price is not mentioned.

Last night I spoke to a friend who is a very good photographer and we were talking about the new medium format backs.

End of the conversation was (they all go like this), before I spend another 20 or 40 grand it better have high iso and a great lcd.

Every time, every conversation.



JR
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 11:06:22 am by James R Russell »
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2008, 11:40:20 am »

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100% agree.

For most things I really don't like auto focus.  In fact I don't like much of auto anything.

Nothing tells you more about a photo than to move the focus to the eye or hand or whatever you want and see it snap into focus.

It's magic and all autofocus does is give you some general look.  Even on the most commercial of jobs I hate that general look.

Now given that I don't know why we don't have huge prisms or magnifiers or big ass waist level finders.

The Rolliflex has it, but the camera is not the issue in medium format, it's the iso and the backs.

I drop my jaw when I see all of these new announcements and the two things photographers have asked for for 5 years . . . a good lcd . . . . higher iso, is just not mentioned.

It's not like medium format doesn't have some things down really well.  The file quality with a lot o light is pretty damn amazing and if your stuck tethering all day long to that cart o' rocks, no dslr will be as easy, though it is possible.

Regardless of all of this, I have never had a conversation about cameras (in the digital age) with anyone, where at the very end price is not mentioned.

Last night I spoke to a friend who is a very good photographer and we were talking about the new medium format backs.

End of the conversation was (they all go like this), before I spend another 20 or 40 grand it better have high iso and a great lcd.

Every time, every conversation.
JR
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I agree but do not understand how the hell you guys are manually focusing the 1DsMII..
Either you have Eagle eyes or you freakin lucky!.
I can see shit in my Canon Viewfinder and I have a Brightscreen in it...
I guess you guys are talking about in VERY well lit areas and maybe waist up portraits...
Other wise I have a hard time beleiveing either one of you..:+]
SNook
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2008, 11:43:31 am »

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I agree but do not understand how the hell you guys are manually focusing the 1DsMII..
Either you have Eagle eyes or you freakin lucky!.
I can see shit in my Canon Viewfinder and I have a Brightscreen in it...
I guess you guys are talking about in VERY well lit areas and maybe waist up portraits...
Other wise I have a hard time beleiveing either one of you..:+]
SNook
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I don't have eagle eyes, but after 80 billion photographs you get the hang of it.

Also never discount the fear factor.

Fear of failure is a great motivator.

JR
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Guy Mancuso

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« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2008, 12:03:51 pm »

I manual focus all the time and this lens no exception so far. It is pretty easy to manual focus. I guess some of us old dogs are pretty good at manual focusing since that is all we had for many years. Certainly a acquired taste. LOL

I simply don't trust AF in a lot of ways. I use it but sparingly
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Snook

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« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2008, 12:47:18 pm »

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My pleasure. Snapshot. Look at the way it blurs smoothly from sharp hair to blurry hair to wipeout background. No photoshopping, taken in direct sunlight.

Edmund
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Edmond do you sit around in the park next to the eiffel tower all day shooting Tourist...:+}
I bet you the only one out there shooting tourist and people with a P45..
Snook
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2008, 12:53:42 pm »

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I don't have eagle eyes, but after 80 billion photographs you get the hang of it.

Also never discount the fear factor.

Fear of failure is a great motivator.

JR
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After Shooting 20 years with medium format I have no problem focusing and was actually known for not having hardly any shots OOF.
But after that then when I moved to the 1Ds it was a joke trying to manual focus.
I have heard the Viewfinder in the DsIII is much better... I have not tried it.
I have always had an issue from day one with the focus on the Canon... I hated it. that and the 250th flash sync. But still better than mamiya.
Hey any news on those Leaf shutter lens???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
That is when I will be a happy camper...
Snook
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2008, 01:17:07 pm »

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After Shooting 20 years with medium format I have no problem focusing and was actually known for not having hardly any shots OOF.
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We'll take your word for it, except when you use a loner back.

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26677&hl=]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....topic=26677&hl=[/url]
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2008, 01:29:00 pm »

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We'll take your word for it, except when you use a loner back.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....topic=26677&hl=
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Sorry but I don't see what that has to do with it... That is the back/Camera not me...:+]
Also had problems with the RZIIPROD until I got another Screen...:+}
Snook
Also I was wondering why you always say cart O' Racks when you shoot with your phase..?
You can always shoot to the CF card. Again back in the old films days you did not have a BIG LCD either. you had a polaroid but was useful for that one shot.. the rest was up in the air until you got the film back..
I think some people really have gotten spoiled with Digital and start whining a lot.
Step back and think about how it used to work and then might not bitch about every little thing.
If you sure of your lighting and many even go by histogram which is really the only thing that matters.
In the old days you did not have so much luck as to see "every" fram on a damn LCD..:+}

Reminds me of the Wall-E movie..
we all going to fat Photographers with LCD in your asse's....
sweeping around on hover carts taking picturs with a future red Video cameras.... hahaha

Then you might call it Hover Cart o' Rocks

Just my Opinion
*Snook

PS. I also would love a huge LCD etc... But that's life.. My Audi Quattro is AWD but I do not take it Off roading in deep mud too often...Some times in the snow... My Wife's Jeep is better for that...

Plus many scream in here how there should e this and there should be that... But truthfully I just do not think the market is that Big to be popping off new designs every 2-3 years like Canon...
Completely different market. Canon can do it b/c of there Volume.

In my market which is really small, there are about 4-8 photographer who "may" be interested in MFDB. ANd than from ther they all have their different options. One has Mamaiya the other hassleblad and the other Contax and the other Pentax etc...
35mm is Nikon or Canon, That narrows everything down and creates Volume...:+}

In other words the 35mm people have really only 2 choices. as in the MFDB world there or many more. I feel that will be changing really soon.
We'll see which ones will be staying in for the long hall.
My Bet is Phase and HassleBlad.. with Leaf Holding in there some where.
I know sinar is a great back but just do not see them in the RACE.
Some of these guys might even start merging like Phamiya.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:38:21 pm by Snook »
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