Sublimation

[Panopeeper]

Does anyone here have some experience with sublimation printing?

I have some ceramic tiles coated with sublimation process. I put one of them in the sun for perhaps eight weeks ago; the fading is horrendeous.

I have not created them myself, I don't know the brand of the dye. Did someone try these for UV (and generally light) resistance? Are there more resistant dyes out there for sublimation?

[framah]

I have the equipment to do it but haven't actually gotten myself set up yet... project number 78 on the list of things to do around here!!

Your query got me thinking and so I called one of the companies who sell the materials to do this and they told me that all of the inks sold out there for dye sub will fade when put into sun as you did.
As with any art, do not put it in the sun and it will last a long time. She said that the 8 week timeframe sounds about right for fading from full sun exposure.

[Panopeeper]

I have the equipment to do it but haven't actually gotten myself set up yet... project number 78 on the list of things to do around here!!

A larger block of ceramic tiles looks gorgeous. I created (I mean I supplied the images) a pano on 2 x 8 tiles, 4.25"x4.25". It looks much better than on paper.

Your query got me thinking and so I called one of the companies who sell the materials to do this and they told me that all of the inks sold out there for dye sub will fade when put into sun as you did

Thanks for this info. DO you mind posting, which company it was? I plan to contact others, asking the same question. Perhaps there are other types of dyes, more resitant?

As with any art, do not put it in the sun and it will last a long time. She said that the 8 week timeframe sounds about right for fading from full sun exposure.

It is difficult to protect a block of tiles from all light on the wall of a bathroom, etc. I do not believe, that this is entirely UV effect, Most materials, which are believed fading by UV are faded by visible light as well; it is only the question of time and exposure. Tiles can't be replaced so easily as a picture hanging on the wall; they have to retain their effect for decades.

[Ernst Dinkla]

It is difficult to protect a block of tiles from all light on the wall of a bathroom, etc. I do not believe, that this is entirely UV effect, Most materials, which are believed fading by UV are faded by visible light as well; it is only the question of time and exposure. Tiles can't be replaced so easily as a picture hanging on the wall; they have to retain their effect for decades.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's the reason why it wasn't easy to decorate glas and ceramics with inkjet printers. Meanwhile some inks are available for special printers. Using extremely finely grounded fritte that can be fired after printing to create the bond and melt to a glaze. Then followed by one layer of transparent glaze. Another way to print on glass, ceramics, some metals and polyester coatings is based on waterglass (soluble glass) as the binder and inkjet pigment as the colorant. Fixed with a 150 degrees C heat treatment. That ink was used in a converted Epson 4800. I have seen little of its further development over the last years. Then there are the UV curing polymer inkjet inks, mainly epoxy or acrylic based. Special printers too.

Only the first example will give equivalent hardness and fade resistance that silkscreen printed glazes will offer.

Waterglass as a fixative after inkjet printing has been mentioned and used maybe 10-15 years ago when (Encad) inkjet printed vinyl foils were used outdoors. It is known as a fixative/binder for mural paintings much longer. I still wonder what it could improve as a fixative on normal inkjet papers with a kaolin coating. There are some patents on waterglass and inkjet.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[framah]

I think that the quality of the tile coating that accepts the ink is partly to blame here as well. When I first encountered a print on tile, one of my artists brought one in to show me and I bought a small one to check it out. I found that the coating on her tile scratched very easily, I could scratch it with my finger nail. I called the companies who make the equipment and they confirmed my suspicions. So I'm going to assume that the coating is also involved here in the UV factor as well.

The process is such that you first print a reverse image using dye sub inks. Then you set the paper into a press and then place the tiles down onto the image and then close the press and the heat is at around 300 degrees or so. The heat opens the polymer coating  allowing it to accept the ink and thus the name transfer. As the tile cools the coating "closes up" and the ink is set.   A high quality tile should not have the problems like fading and scratching as there are some amazing installations of tiles in rich folks homes and I'm sure they would not be happy campers if they paid a few thousand to have tile art made only to have it fade after a few months.

You can also buy the coating and coat pretty much anything and transfer a print to it. Wood, granite, marble, metal, etc.

For websites try:

http://www.dyetrans.com
http://www.bisoncoating.com
http://www.transferbusiness.com
http://www.bestblanks.com
http://www.tropicalgraphics.ca
http://lococoart-tile.com
http://www.transferit.net
http://www.armorcoatings.com

[Panopeeper]

Using extremely finely grounded fritte that can be fired after printing to create the bond and melt to a glaze

This sounds interesting. I searched for more info (on yahoo too), but found nothing with "fritte" or "frit", except related to screen printing. Can you give me anything more information to search for?

A high quality tile should not have the problems like fading and scratching as there are some amazing installations of tiles in rich folks homes and I'm sure they would not be happy campers if they paid a few thousand to have tile art made only to have it fade after a few months

I am afraid this is only an expectation, not necessarily corresponding to reality. I wonder where the creators of such tiles will be in a few years, when the owners notice the fading.

The scratch resistance is not such a big problem. Those tiles I have can not be scratched by nail, though they would not withstand rigorous scrubbing. Of course, if the installation is not in the kitchen or in a shower, where it needs to be scrubbed, then this aspect may be ignored. Such high-price items are meant anyway for other places.

[Ernst Dinkla]

This sounds interesting. I searched for more info (on yahoo too), but found nothing with "fritte" or "frit", except related to screen printing. Can you give me anything more information to search for?

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[a href=\"http://www.google.nl/search?q=inkjet+ceramic+inks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3a%6ffficial&client=firefox-a]http://www.google.nl/search?q=inkjet+ceram...lient=firefox-a[/url]


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Osequis]

I just read this article last week, hope this info could help you:

http://www.bigpicture.net/index.php3?openc...&displaynow=yes

The featured company link:

http://www.imagesintile.com


I been thinking in doing a tile mural for some time but after some research, found is better to get the printing from a experienced 3rd party.

[Panopeeper]

I just read this article last week, hope this info could help you

Thanks, but this is the sublimation process, which ends up in an unstable color. I wonder what the owner will say in a few years, when all the parts of the mural, which is getting much light is strongly faded (I guess there will be some accent lighting there). The sample I put in the sun lost all vivid colors, now it is like an old thermal fax.

Unfortunately, the method mentioned above by Ernst appears not to be mature for production yet. I searched and searched and found several companies advertizing themselves, but none with actual production and proven history.

The idea of creating an ink from ceramic powder sounds great, but apparently the technology is not there yet; or, possibly, this is working already, but when melting the "printed image", the details melt together?

[Ernst Dinkla]

Unfortunately, the method mentioned above by Ernst appears not to be mature for production yet. I searched and searched and found several companies advertizing themselves, but none with actual production and proven history.

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Strange, one company has it in development since 2000 and writes about systems in operation:

[a href=\"http://www.ferro.com/Our+Products/Tile+Coating+Systems/KERAjet+Digital+Inkjet+Printing+on+Ceramics/]http://www.ferro.com/Our+Products/Tile+Coa...ng+on+Ceramics/[/url]


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Panopeeper]

Ernst,

I too found Kerajet. Then I went on searching for more info:

1. this is not an ink, it is a complete printing system, with price up to $250,000 (the price is not from their site),

2. it is designed for large scale industrial production, not for custom printing of a mural of a dozen or a few dozen tiles,

3. according to some site, these machines are not installed yet, in contrast to their claims (though this may have changed in the meantime),

4. according to another site, there are printing quality problems,

5. according to again another site, the color reproduction ability is "limited" (whatever that means).

Most of these problems may have been eliminated already or they will be eliminated, but #2 makes it unviable for the purpose of a photographer.

[graeme]

I'd be surprised if you could get any really durable result on ceramic tiles unless a ceramic colour was fired onto it at a temperature of at least 550˚C ( probably higher ). Also, I don't know if it would be possible to print coloured photographic images with fired ceramic colours. Monochrome images or ones with a screenprinted 'Warhol' look should be possible.

If your images lend themselves to this kind of treatment it may be easier to have them screenprinted onto glass using opaque ceramic colours. The glass would be toughened as part of the firing process thus meeting safety regs. I think it's possible to use this process on glass in sections of up to 1.5 x 3 metres.

If the glass was then wall mounted you could have the image on the back of the glass which would make it even more durable ( although durability shouldn't be a problem with fired ceramic colours in a domestic setting ).

Check this site: http://www.protostudios.com/home.htm

Good luck

Graeme

[Ernst Dinkla]

I'd be surprised if you could get any really durable result on ceramic tiles unless a ceramic colour was fired onto it at a temperature of at least 550˚C ( probably higher ). Also, I don't know if it would be possible to print coloured photographic images with fired ceramic colours. Monochrome images or ones with a screenprinted 'Warhol' look should be possible.

If your images lend themselves to this kind of treatment it may be easier to have them screenprinted onto glass using opaque ceramic colours. The glass would be toughened as part of the firing process thus meeting safety regs. I think it's possible to use this process on glass in sections of up to 1.5 x 3 metres.

If the glass was then wall mounted you could have the image on the back of the glass which would make it even more durable ( although durability shouldn't be a problem with fired ceramic colours in a domestic setting ).

Check this site: http://www.protostudios.com/home.htm

Good luck


Graeme
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

About 9 years ago I had to do some work on the translation of a picture to silkscreen masks for the cladding glass panels of this building:

[a href=\"http://w3.tue.nl/nl/diensten/dh/gebouwinformatie_Campus_TUe/Vertigo/]http://w3.tue.nl/nl/diensten/dh/gebouwinfo...us_TUe/Vertigo/[/url]

http://www.architectuur.org/dirrix01.php

The glass sheets were produced near Valencia-Spain (the ceramic/glass region) with silkscreen printing ceramic inks, firing and hardening afterward, then sandwiched to double glass. First production proved to be wrongly hardened so had to be replaced. The factory accepted the loss of a big sum. This is an industry that will get a digital print on demand system one way or another. A lot of money is available for its development.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/