Need a new monitor

[Morris Taub]

My old CRT is finally caving...I need a new monitor, this one might last me another month or so, but colors are fading, there are transparent color patches of red and blue in areas of the screen and thin green horizontal lines that run across the screen horizontally from edge to edge, top to bottom...

I think if I could I would get the NEC 2490WUXi just based on Sean Reid's near rave review and some other reading I've done...but it isn't available in France for some reason...

What is available :

The NEC 2190UXi, a 21" monitor that says the monitor is a SA-SFT Super Advanced Superfine Technology monitor...about 814 euros before tax...I think I need to add 20 percent tax here in france...maybe another 160-170 euros...

I wonder if it's S-IPS or not?...anyone know what an SA-SFT monitor is?...

The NEC 2090UXi, a 20" monitor lists as an S-IPS A-TW (Super IPS with Advanced True Wide Polarizer)...about 760 euros before tax...

The other option I see here is Apple's 23" display, also an S-IPS monitor...
899 euros all tax included...but i'd have to spend another 99 euros to get it covered for three years like the NEC monitors come from the factory...

My present monitor is a 21" model so I would like this size or slightly larger...I'm thinking I'd be fine with the NEC 20" model as well...

I'm doing graphic design and photography as a freelance artist...work with book publishers mainly and some corporate logo design work...I need a monitor that will show me 'true' color on a consistent basis...

My dying monitor is an 8.5 year old Sony Multiscan G500 that has served me well...

ok, so any opinions, good or bad, about these monitors?...Sean Reid speaks highly of Apple's Cinema Display so I'm kind of comfortable with that as well...the 23" size is nice, I've seen a few in Apple stores over the last few months...

Thanks for any advice, experience you may have...please excuse the long post...

M

[martinog]

Hola from Spain,
Look at this web site. I have no experience of the firm but they do supply France and stock NEC, Eizo and LaCie.
http://shop.colourconfidence.com/
The Apple 23 is a good monitor but they are old technology now.
Martin

[KiboOst]

I have several nec 2090uxi and HP LP2065. Both share the exact same screen as some eizo, and are indeed very good. Easily calibrated (I use monaco optix xr). The HP is really cheaper but is very fine and once more use the same screen as the nec. Both are so 20" 1600x1200.

[Czornyj]

My old CRT is finally caving...I need a new monitor, this one might last me another month or so, but colors are fading, there are transparent color patches of red and blue in areas of the screen and thin green horizontal lines that run across the screen horizontally from edge to edge, top to bottom...

I think if I could I would get the NEC 2490WUXi just based on Sean Reid's near rave review and some other reading I've done...but it isn't available in France for some reason...

What is available :

The NEC 2190UXi, a 21" monitor that says the monitor is a SA-SFT Super Advanced Superfine Technology monitor...about 814 euros before tax...I think I need to add 20 percent tax here in france...maybe another 160-170 euros...

I wonder if it's S-IPS or not?...anyone know what an SA-SFT monitor is?...

The NEC 2090UXi, a 20" monitor lists as an S-IPS A-TW (Super IPS with Advanced True Wide Polarizer)...about 760 euros before tax...

The other option I see here is Apple's 23" display, also an S-IPS monitor...
899 euros all tax included...but i'd have to spend another 99 euros to get it covered for three years like the NEC monitors come from the factory...

My present monitor is a 21" model so I would like this size or slightly larger...I'm thinking I'd be fine with the NEC 20" model as well...

I'm doing graphic design and photography as a freelance artist...work with book publishers mainly and some corporate logo design work...I need a monitor that will show me 'true' color on a consistent basis...

My dying monitor is an 8.5 year old Sony Multiscan G500 that has served me well...

ok, so any opinions, good or bad, about these monitors?...Sean Reid speaks highly of Apple's Cinema Display so I'm kind of comfortable with that as well...the 23" size is nice, I've seen a few in Apple stores over the last few months...

Thanks for any advice, experience you may have...please excuse the long post...

M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210275\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

SA-SFT (Super Advanced - Super Fine TFT  ) is a S-IPS type panel, the only one that is manufactured by Nec. It's good and reliable, probably even better than H-IPS by LG-Philips.

Nec 90 series have 12 bit, programmable LUT and electronic brightness + color uniformity compensation. They are more suitable for color critical applications than Apple. As a 2190UXi user I also highly recommend it.

[francois]

…

The other option I see here is Apple's 23" display, also an S-IPS monitor...
899 euros all tax included...but i'd have to spend another 99 euros to get it covered for three years like the NEC monitors come from the factory...

…

I would stay away from the Apple 23" Cinema Display. Not only, it's old tech but I've seen some many of these with pink or green corners that I can't recommand them. If you still decide to go with the 23" Cinema Display, don't order it from a mail-order company. You need to check in person for those pink corners and dead pixels.

[peterpix2008]

Writing this note on my new NEC 2690, 25.5" monitor, which replaces my LaCie 19" LCD. Wow! $1250 from Amazon. Haven't had  time to calibrate it yet, but reading on  some forums, this is an identical monitor to the LaCie 25.5" that sells for much more cash.  JP Caponigro uses this model apparently.

[dkeyes]

Writing this note on my new NEC 2690, 25.5" monitor, which replaces my LaCie 19" LCD. Wow! $1250 from Amazon. Haven't had  time to calibrate it yet, but reading on  some forums, this is an identical monitor to the LaCie 25.5" that sells for much more cash.  JP Caponigro uses this model apparently.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just bought this same monitor (2690) and love it. Calibrates well with my Eye1. Bought it for $1170 from CostCentral who is very reliable (get all my z3100 ink there).

[Morris Taub]

Just bought this same monitor (2690) and love it. Calibrates well with my Eye1. Bought it for $1170 from CostCentral who is very reliable (get all my z3100 ink there).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I may go down this road as well, the 2690...wish i could see one up close but down here in the south of france there aren't many monitors of this level on display...

did stroll into an apple store near my home a few days ago...had a heart to heart with the store owner about monitors, my concern about the 23" quality...he himself said they were old tech and that there were better monitors out there for the money...he told me to wait...he said new monitors from apple would be out or announced by the end of august...said they'd be much better...i wonder how he knows...wonder...hell, he in essence said i won't sell you a monitor today when the good stuff is comin' if i'm patient just a bit more...

so i might wait till the end of august...see what happens...stick it out with this fading sony just a while longer...in the meantime, just want to thank you all for your ideas and experience...i'll post back when i buy a monitor...kinda close the circle...

now i'm off to try and learn lightroom 2...

kind regards

M

[mbalensiefer]

Hiya.
 If you want to purchase an Apple monitor, you might as well go with Dell, as they both use the same manufacturer in their screens--but Dell's are much cheaper!

I prefer the 2407FPW myself. For a large price premium, Dell's just released the 2408 model; and this unit's contrast ratio has moved the 2407's 1000:1 to 3000:1, and the newer version's color gamut is 107% of the ICC's max.

[Nill Toulme]

The NEC *90uxi series is absolutely terrific, especially if you pair one with NEC's Spectraview II calibration/profiling software.  I have the 2090uxi and couldn't be happier with it.  (Well, I guess I'd be happier if it were a 24" instead of a 20"...)

Highly recommended.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

[01af]

I prefer the [Dell] 2407WFP myself.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Me too. I bought mine half a year ago from a German online dealer for a little over 600 Euro.

For a large price premium, Dell's just released the 2408 model ...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Huh? The Dell 2408WFP today is less than the 2407WFP-HC six months ago.

The 2407WFP-HC's colour gamut is approx. half-way between sRGB and Adobe RGB ... maybe a little closer to Adobe RGB. The 2408WFP's gamut is even wider; it should be pretty close to Adobe RGB. These wide-gamut 24" wide-panel LCD monitors definitely need a capable graphics card. My old analog-output graphics card rendered a poor image on the 2407WFP-HC's screen but with the new ATi Radeon HD 2600 Pro card (PCI Express interface, DVI output) the image is just great without any calibration required.

The wider-than-sRGB gamut is very obvious. In non-colour-managed environments, all colours appear extremely bright and saturated. Currently I am using Adobe RGB as my monitor profile (running Windows XP) which is not really accurate but better than no monitor profile.

For perfect tone and colour rendition on a LCD monitor, you'd need a model which has a programmable 10-bit or 12-bit LUT (look-up table). Without a LUT, altering the tone or colour rendition immediatey will introduce banding which will render the monitor unusable for image-processing work. The Dell 2407WFP and 2408WFP don't have LUTs---I am still happy with mine because with my ATi Radeon graphics card, no calibration is required (good luck I guess). LCD monitors with adjustable LUTs are more expensive than those without. See Eizo, NEC, and Samsung at prices beyond 1,000 Euro.

-- Olaf

[mbalensiefer]

Olaf,  
 So, are you using a generic profile instead of a profile from a custom-calibrated device? Why is this?
 Also, how large a percent-difference do you think it is that the LUT screens have over Dell's new monitors? Is this worth the price difference?

On a side note, another plus of this new-series monitor (on the 2708, at least, vs. the 2707) is that it is 17 pounds lighter than it's predecessor! This also means that the new 27-inch model is only 3 pounds heavier than Dell's (old) 24 inch model. The new series models use LED's instead of the old flourescent and fibre-optic uplighting.

[01af]

So, are you using a generic profile instead of a profile from a custom-calibrated device? Why is this?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212687\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I do. It's simply because I don't have a profiling device---not yet. I plan to purchase one in the near future ... I guess I'll get the Spyder3 Studio set which can profile both monitors and printers.

Anyway, the generic Adobe RGB ICC profile is working surprisingly well as a monitor profile---better than any vendor-provided profile. It doesn't match my monitor perfectly but the error is small enough for my intents and purposes. Of course, for corporate logo design work this tongue-in-cheek solution would not be adequate. Still, prints come out fairly close to what I see on the screen, and even with perfectly profiled monitors and printers you'll never get a 100 % match between screen and print anyway.

Also, how large a percent-difference do you think it is that the LUT screens have over Dell's new monitors? Is this worth the price difference?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212687\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am not quite up-to-date about the current prices ... but if I remember correctly then monitors with LUT are approx. twice as much and more. For me, it's not worth the difference. Your mileage may vary.

-- Olaf

[Morris Taub]

The NEC *90uxi series is absolutely terrific, especially if you pair one with NEC's Spectraview II calibration/profiling software.  I have the 2090uxi and couldn't be happier with it.  (Well, I guess I'd be happier if it were a 24" instead of a 20"...)

Highly recommended.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212544\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Nill, I've heard you talk about your monitor before and your praise of the it is part of why I started being interested in NEC monitors a ways back...and then the excellent report by Sean Reid about the 2490 and what Karl Lang said about it...

Sadly, I can't get the 2490 in France...seems this model is not available in europe or it would be a no brainer for me...

I can get the 2190uxi here for about 840 euros all taxes included which is a pretty good price i think...If i want the spectraview version it doubles in price to over 1600 euros which I think is a total rip off for the software and a puck...

I've got an iOne display two puck and software...do you think that would give me great calibrations if I went with the 2190uxi?...

thanks...

M

[Morris Taub]

Hiya.
 If you want to purchase an Apple monitor, you might as well go with Dell, as they both use the same manufacturer in their screens--but Dell's are much cheaper!

I prefer the 2407FPW myself. For a large price premium, Dell's just released the 2408 model; and this unit's contrast ratio has moved the 2407's 1000:1 to 3000:1, and the newer version's color gamut is 107% of the ICC's max.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, but I've read lots of bad things about Dell monitor quality, enough for me to keep away...I really need a monitor that's dependable, calibrates well, and gives consistent good color rendition, especially when it comes to gradations, and how it shows detail in dark and light areas...

I've read on the apple forums about people with more problems with the 2408 version and now they're sorry they upgraded from the 2407...

thanks

M

[Scott Martin]

FWIW, it's Dell's "wfp" displays that are rumored to share the same LCD part manufacturer with Apple. Aside from the wfp series, I haven't seen a Dell display that I'd recommend to anyone. But I would say that the Dell 3007wfp with it's built in memory card reader is an excellent value at $1100 including shipping and, like Apple's cinema displays, the only hardware control is brightness which simplifies calibration.

[Morris Taub]

FWIW, it's Dell's "wfp" displays that are rumored to share the same LCD part manufacturer with Apple. Aside from the wfp series, I haven't seen a Dell display that I'd recommend to anyone. But I would say that the Dell 3007wfp with it's built in memory card reader is an excellent value at $1100 including shipping and, like Apple's cinema displays, the only hardware control is brightness which simplifies calibration.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Scott...yes, I've seen the info about the screen being the same LG panel...

That Dell 3007wfp is a bit over 2300 euros here in France...

I don't think Dell and I have a future together...

thanks

M

[mbalensiefer]

Thanks, Momo.

 Link to the Apple forums?
 Pricing would definitely be a factor in one's review, and we Americans can pick them up for much cheaper than in your side 'o the world...

 I think that "detail in greyscale and dark areas" will forever remain with the good 'ol CRT.

V/R
Michael

[Morris Taub]

Thanks, Momo.

 Link to the Apple forums?
 Pricing would definitely be a factor in one's review, and we Americans can pick them up for much cheaper than in your side 'o the world...

 I think that "detail in greyscale and dark areas" will forever remain with the good 'ol CRT.

V/R
Michael
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Here's a link...hope this works ok for you...

[a href=\"http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1436508&tstart=0]Link to Apple Display forum[/url]

here's one quote :

"I to have the Dell 2408 and am returning it. Besides the color it has a strange blue flashing issue when waking from power saving mode. I swear video looks out of sync with the audio because of the lag. Its driving me crazy! Though I can't bring myself to buy the apple since its old. The NEC 2490 and 2690 are pro level monitors that are amazing. I'm picking mine up in the morning. They are only a couple hundred more than the ACD.... Good luck!"

I personally don't think this is the whole story, I'm sure these dell's work great for some,...I'm just not able to afford an expensive experiment...

kind regards

M

[Morris Taub]

Hola from Spain,
Look at this web site. I have no experience of the firm but they do supply France and stock NEC, Eizo and LaCie.
http://shop.colourconfidence.com/
The Apple 23 is a good monitor but they are old technology now.
Martin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210365\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I finally got around to checking out this site, thanks martinog...they do have an Eizo CG222w that i can buy shipped to me for 1261 euros...slightly on the high side of what i have as a budget but it seems to be a good monitor, some good reviews, and each time i read about eizo it seems like people rave about them...

They also had the NEC 2190uxi spectraview but it comes in at 1425...that's pretty high...I found the same model monitor without the SV for 840 euros on amazon.fr...paying near 600 euros to have software and a puck for the NEC seems excessive...I know they tack on around 300 dollars in the US...

My other problems with all this, I'm buying a product for visual work and except for the apple monitors (which i've seen at apple stores and fnac here in France) I can't get to 'see' how they look, how they present color and detail...I have to buy 'blind'...this is making me a bit crazy...the NEC, the Eizo...lots of money and I can't see them...

anyway, thanks Martin for the link...

M