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Author Topic: More ZD woes  (Read 3880 times)

Justinr

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« on: July 22, 2008, 05:39:59 pm »

Popped along to a local fashion show and pageant tonight on behalf of our town magazine. The AFD/ZD did all that was asked of it with a few pre show shots of the Pride of Tipp entrants and some arty documentary stuff, but when it came to the crunch and the girls took to the catwalk it simply stopped working. DB errors, 'busy' messages, lock symbols, the flipping lot. I do not think I got more than two shots that were even half lit or worth keeping. I was using a Metz 45 with SCA adaptor and even though I tried all sorts of combinations of manual and auto the whole set up failed miserably and in front of 300 people I was left looking a total prat. I kept to the same 80mm std lens for most of the time but only started to achieve something when I switched to the 120 macro, but then the battery pack started failing and wouldn't charge up the flash anywhere near as quick as was required, so I'm not over impressed with Metz's claims for that little item either.

I'm off to bed to sulk now, but I shall never have any faith in it again if there is the slightest bit of stress to be expected on a job.

Justin.
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jimgolden

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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 07:33:23 pm »

backup backup backup
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Juanito

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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2008, 07:41:33 pm »

Bummer about the problems. Medium format is great for what it does, but for any sort of event photography, I'd just stick with small format. Why make things tougher than they have to be?

John

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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2008, 08:01:56 pm »

Justin,

How fast were you shooting (or, rather, trying to shoot).  In my conversations with Mamiya support, it appears that they are aware of the very temperamental buffer of the ZD back.  It just isn't made for prolonged snapping of shots, even though it can, in theory hit 1.2 fps.  

My experience has been that anything over, say, 4 or 5 shots in a 10 second time frame just locks out the camera for a bit while the buffer catches up. I try to plan my shots over a sequence of time to avoid this lock up, but I think the ZD back is really for planned fashion shots or methodical landscape shots.

Not sure about the flash unit.  I use a Metz 54zi with Mamiy AF adapter and it seems to cycle just fine.  However, I would probably still shoot this type of "action" using a my Nikon D300.  Some folks are trying to use MFDB for action shots (see some recent threads over on getdpi forums) but it's not with the ZD back but rather a Phase P45, I think.

Sorry about the experience.  If it were a paying gig and I still wanted to try the ZD back, I'd definitely have a backup DSLR there, in case.  Worst case scenario there is that you can have some more 'planned' shots from the MFDB and the sheer volume of shots using the DSLR.

Good luck working on this.

-Josh
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Justinr

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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 05:19:31 pm »

Not too much was lost on the shoot. I had gone along to take some shots of the Pride of Tipp contestants and I came away with some agreeable images that answered the purpose. The fashion stuff was going to be a bonus as I had never attempted catwalk photography before and I was keen to give it a go. Thinking back and looking at the mess I made I believe it is as much the AFD's problem as it is the ZD's. The difficulties originated in the AFD's inability to to walk and chew gum at the same time. In poor light it couldn't autofocus and decide upon an exposure all at once, or so it seemed. The camera just felt slow and indecisive and only perked up when I switched to manual focus with the 120 macro, but then the power to the flash played up! So all in all it was an experience from which I have some lessons to learn. The unit is obviously not suited to this sort of work but I need to experiment some more to find out just where the limitations kick in.

Justin.
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Snook

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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 05:42:31 pm »

Quote
Not too much was lost on the shoot. I had gone along to take some shots of the Pride of Tipp contestants and I came away with some agreeable images that answered the purpose. The fashion stuff was going to be a bonus as I had never attempted catwalk photography before and I was keen to give it a go. Thinking back and looking at the mess I made I believe it is as much the AFD's problem as it is the ZD's. The difficulties originated in the AFD's inability to to walk and chew gum at the same time. In poor light it couldn't autofocus and decide upon an exposure all at once, or so it seemed. The camera just felt slow and indecisive and only perked up when I switched to manual focus with the 120 macro, but then the power to the flash played up! So all in all it was an experience from which I have some lessons to learn. The unit is obviously not suited to this sort of work but I need to experiment some more to find out just where the limitations kick in.

Justin.
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I would not consider ever using a MFDB of any kind for a Run Way atmosphere...
Unlesss you were right down the middle with tripod and a big lens! And manual focusing.
There is no way a afd is going to keep up with the stride of person or model..

And iso 100 is not going to help either in crappy runway lighting.
Snook
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Justinr

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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 05:47:19 pm »

Quote
I would not consider ever using a MFDB of any kind for a Run Way atmosphere...
Unlesss you were right down the middle with tripod and a big lens! And manual focusing.
There is no way a afd is going to keep up with the stride of person or model..

And iso 100 is not going to help either in crappy runway lighting.
Snook
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Quite so, one of the major lessons learnt!  

Justin.
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eronald

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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2008, 05:52:45 pm »

Quote
I would not consider ever using a MFDB of any kind for a Run Way atmosphere...
Unlesss you were right down the middle with tripod and a big lens! And manual focusing.
There is no way a afd is going to keep up with the stride of person or model..

And iso 100 is not going to help either in crappy runway lighting.
Snook
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I think Guy Mancuso has been using his back for runway - I know he used a Leica DMR at one point. My feeling is the big Paris shows eg. Dior could be shot with MF and no strobe, but the smaller less professionally lit ones - no chance.

Edmund
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James R Russell

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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2008, 06:33:57 pm »

Quote
I think Guy Mancuso has been using his back for runway - I know he used a Leica DMR at one point. My feeling is the big Paris shows eg. Dior could be shot with MF and no strobe, but the smaller less professionally lit ones - no chance.

Edmund
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If you try to shoot runway in Paris, Milan or New York with medium format you'll get eaten alive, physcially, mentally and financially.

Especially Milan.

The risers are a tough place and not a venue to use anything  that doesn't zoom, doesn't go to a billion asa and doesn't shoot at light speed.

The guys that travel the circuit sell by the image and when the show starts they'll do everything but set you on fire to get your spot.    They usually have images uploaded in minutes after the shows, usually during the shows.

It's not a place for the slow or the methodical, or the faint of heart.

It aint' art.

JR
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Justinr

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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2008, 06:52:02 pm »

As I mentioned I've never been near this sort of thing before so all in all it was a bit of an eye opener. What struck me most though was the haughty disdainfulness of the 'professional' models doing the fashion stuff. Tall and skinny and somehow utterly unattractive, quite unlike the local lasses who were all into sports of one sort or another and were not totally unfamiliar with a glass of something or other afterwards I would imagine. One hears that top models are often complete bitches but I hadn't realised that it was quite so universal. And as for the lady organising it then I was immediately her greatest 'love' and 'darling' although we had never met before. This was just a tiny show out in the wilderness of rural Ireland for Gawd's sake, surely they could give it a rest just the once whilst away from the city lights!

Justin.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 06:53:09 pm by Justinr »
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James R Russell

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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2008, 07:13:31 pm »

Quote
As I mentioned I've never been near this sort of thing before so all in all it was a bit of an eye opener. What struck me most though was the haughty disdainfulness of the 'professional' models doing the fashion stuff. Tall and skinny and somehow utterly unattractive, quite unlike the local lasses who were all into sports of one sort or another and were not totally unfamiliar with a glass of something or other afterwards I would imagine. One hears that top models are often complete bitches but I hadn't realised that it was quite so universal. And as for the lady organising it then I was immediately her greatest 'love' and 'darling' although we had never met before. This was just a tiny show out in the wilderness of rural Ireland for Gawd's sake, surely they could give it a rest just the once whilst away from the city lights!

Justin.
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I don't know what type of work you do or what this event was like, but don't let this be your or anyone's  overall view of the modeling profession, because it's actually 180 of the real world.

Great models are performing artists and what you might think is haughtiness might be the look they were asked to portray.

In fact there is nothing more inspirational that shooting a great model and I've always joked that the only reason I'm in the room is because the model can't work and shoot the camera the same time.

Nothing can move your work like a great model, nothing can sell product like a great model.

Most of these girls start posing as children and by the time they get on the editorial pages, they know more about fashion, looks, poses, style and how the light plays off of them than 20 of the best photographers in the world combined.

I could write two books on this, but the women (actually girls) have a life that is unique, difficult, sometimes dangerous and  beyond competitive.

Great models sell more goods and services than all the ceos in the world.  

Imagine going into a room, standing in your underwear while 20 people frown, make gestures and rate you.

Imagine, flying all day and night to get to a gig, go to the crappiest part of a city, up two dark flights of stairs to shoot with someone you've never met.

The models that make it are some of the most intelligent, worldly, strongest and impressive people I've ever met.

They have seen the very best and the very worst of human behavior and have had to confront situations that would make the Navy Seals squirm.

As far as promoters saying dahling, a sweetie . . . whatever . . . you don't have to listen.

I'm not being judgmental and everybody can have a different experience, but great models to my are like thoroughbreds.  They're special.

Sure there is a few that aren't worth working with, but that's way in the minority.



JR
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 07:45:05 pm by James R Russell »
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TMARK

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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2008, 08:43:47 pm »

I shot a Nico and Adrianne fashion show for them.  They wanted something different.  It freaked me out.  Runway shooting is like shooting press but strange strange, like paps but in a controlled environment.  I can't believe that people shoot runway, its low pay and high pressure, and it sure as hell aint art.  I used a Nikon F5 and Tri-X pushed to 1600, as well as a 1ds2.
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Justinr

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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 01:32:01 pm »

Hi James

This was a very low level affair but it was the models attitude when not catwalking which was most surprising. As they arrived for the show and in between appearances they virtually spat at me, lord knows why, for I'd had a bath and brushed my teeth and wasn't even pointing a camera at them!

I take your point about many of them being tough and intelligent and I don't begrudge them their success, it's just an environment that I now know could never fit into, not that there would have been much risk of that around these parts anyway.

I would also agree that successful photography with a model should be more a partnership rather than a master/servant relationship. Having done a fair bit of wedding and school photography I know full well the importance of gelling and am also acutely aware that some subjects can just do it whilst others will never make a good photo and this is irrespective of how good looking they are.

Justin.
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mtomalty

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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2008, 02:20:43 pm »

Quote
but it was the models attitude when not catwalking which was most surprising.


Maybe the models were just too tech savy and were worried that with your MFDB
you'd be able to print them lifesize and could dig out nasty shadow detail that would
ordinarily remain inaccessible  to the 35mm shooting crowd  

Mark
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Guy Mancuso

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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2008, 02:21:17 pm »

Here guys in NY shooting runway , working out VERY well
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2694
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