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Author Topic: Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS  (Read 29623 times)

clawery

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Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS
« on: July 22, 2008, 10:57:20 AM »

Phase One has just formed a strategic alliance with the German based company Hartblei. Hartblei has a record of producing high end tilt/shift lenses for small format and medium format cameras.
Most lens parts and assembly is done at the Hartblei factory in Kiev Ukraine, but several parts and processes are also produced in Germany.

The general purpose of this Strategic Alliance is to explore opportunities of future lens development for the Phase One 645 camera.

You can go to our web site and see the specs:


http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/07/...t-shift-lenses/


Chris Lawery
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 11:04:03 AM by clawery »
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smhoer

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Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 10:59:35 AM »

Hi Chris,
I think you forgot the attachement.  Can you tell us if the optics have been redesigned from the original Super Rotator?

Quote
Phase One has just formed a strategic alliance with the German based company Hartblei. Hartblei has a record of producing high end tilt/shift lenses for small format and medium format cameras.
Most lens parts and assembly is done at the Hartblei factory in Kiev Ukraine, but several parts and processes are also produced in Germany.

The general purpose of this Strategic Alliance is to explore opportunities of future lens development for the Phase One 645 camera.

Attached is a PDF to give you more of the specs on it:
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Scott H.
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clawery

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Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2008, 11:09:41 AM »

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schaubild

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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2008, 12:17:54 PM »

It looks like the old design.

Just tried mine this weekend on a Canon 5D and wasn't really impressed with it's sharpness (actually it was and is horrible).
What can you expect from an optical design that wasn't intended for anything digital? The base of this lens is the Mir-26, mounted in the Hartblei shift/tilt mount.

http://kievaholic.com/lensspecifications.html
http://kievaholic.com/faq_lenses.html

What might be the idea behind this offering? Really strange.


 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 12:42:46 PM by schaubild »
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mtomalty

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Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2008, 12:32:38 PM »

Quote
It looks like the old design.

Thanks for the update,Chris,but if the new lens is,in fact, a rebadged 45mm Super-Rotator
at triple the price then I don't think it will create any goodwill for Phase

Mark
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James R Russell

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Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2008, 01:03:23 PM »

Quote
Quote
It looks like the old design.

Thanks for the update,Chris,but if the new lens is,in fact, a rebadged 45mm Super-Rotator
at triple the price then I don't think it will create any goodwill for Phase

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209925\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Not to take this off topic, but when you go to invest in medium format there are two things that a professional must have.  #1 does it do the job (that covers a lot of different territory for a lot of people).

#2  Does it have a wow factor.  Don't underestimate the wow factor, because if it's something that you sit on the sticks in the studio and clients go wow, you've covered a lot of postitive ground even before the first shutter is clicked.

The tilt shift, I guess we'll find out eventually if it's modern good or old Boris soft, (I kind of like ol' Boris soft, but that only works 5% of the time).

The thing I don't understand about medium format is the mindset in how they are sold.  

I know all of the backs produce an amazing image I know that if you want to you can learn the workflow of any of them, but I also know that when you put down the price of a BMW you start getting into luxury goods territory.

I think it's funny and gwtifh pretty much hit on it in a round about way.  He/she talks about what works in the world of location advertising, but if you get below the surface, it still comes down to the wow factor.  Does gwtifh have a camera that turns him/her on.  Are the clients, talent and crew impressed, or is it just another day at the office?

When you open that camera case up, does it glow like tthe briefcase in Pulp Fiction, or does it look like something that should be sitting on a Best Buy counter?

Once again for the kind of money these machines require, I would go with the Pulp Fiction scenario.

JR
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smhoer

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Phase One 45mm f/3.5 TS
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2008, 02:31:46 PM »

Russel,
I agree with you that when I talk with a prospective fine art print buyer I sometimes get the question of what do you shoot with.  Some of my print sales are requests (specific skylines or area icons) and my 1dsII just doesn't wow them anymore.  This even when I can show them a 90" print made from stitched files.

On the opposite side of the argument I do think that for MFD to be long-term profitable it will require higher sales volumes.  That is where my type of shooter also plays a roll.  I make enough on sales to help offset my equipment addiction for my landscape shooting.  For the average shooter to move up to MFD the costs will need to come down on the backs to generate higher sales volumes for Phase or Hassy.  Otherwise Canon/Nikon will win out on the cost/benefit analysis.  I am purchasing a MFD (30 or 39mp) system this December.  I can only do this because I have a good job and an understanding wife.

For most in my situation (that I have spoken with) the prices are too out of reach to jump from Canon/Nikon to MFD.  Phase One's latest refurb pricing is a good step forward for many.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 02:34:21 PM by smhoer »
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Scott H.
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schaubild

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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2008, 02:32:57 PM »

One more remark: Hartblei has published some resolution figures for the 45mm. Doesn't really match with the new 6 micron sensors...

http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_45mm.htm

And for the nostalgia fans:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...artblei45.shtml

Just my 5 cent.
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simplify

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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 02:37:23 PM »

I was using the 45mm super rotator with my P45+ and it just wasn't usable for me because of sharpness.  I would never want to use it for architecture.  I sold it on.  I hope they can design a tilt shift that is lighter, sharper and better designed.
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James R Russell

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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 03:34:26 PM »

Quote
Russel,
I agree with you that when I talk with a prospective fine art print buyer I sometimes get the question of what do you shoot with.  Some of my print sales are requests (specific skylines or area icons) and my 1dsII just doesn't wow them anymore.  This even when I can show them a 90" print made from stitched files.

On the opposite side of the argument I do think that for MFD to be long-term profitable it will require higher sales volumes.  That is where my type of shooter also plays a roll.  I make enough on sales to help offset my equipment addiction for my landscape shooting.  For the average shooter to move up to MFD the costs will need to come down on the backs to generate higher sales volumes for Phase or Hassy.  Otherwise Canon/Nikon will win out on the cost/benefit analysis.  I am purchasing a MFD (30 or 39mp) system this December.  I can only do this because I have a good job and an understanding wife.

For most in my situation (that I have spoken with) the prices are too out of reach to jump from Canon/Nikon to MFD.  Phase One's latest refurb pricing is a good step forward for many.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Anybody that thinks about medium format digital loves photography.  Whether they work with a 50 person crew or shoot landscapes at sunup by themself, you just don't think about these pruchases unless you really love photography.

Not talking digital here (god let's don't talk digital)  but let's talk cameras.

If you had to buy one new, available camera to use for the rest of your life, what would it be?

After all, when you talking $40,000 digital backs, or $20,000 upgrades (oops I mentioned digital backs), you had better love the camera you put them on.

Two of my friends that are very good photographers.  

Both do very well, have a lot of success, but don't think they don't keep a eye on the bottom line.

One shoots architecture and I think he's probably the best in the world at it.  He recently bought two Alpas.

Now knowing him, I doubt seriously if it changed his work a great deal, but I do know he believes it bettered his work,  so he bought them and though he proably won't admit it, he bought it because he likes it.  It makes him feel good.

The second photographer shoots people and has owned about every film and digital camera made.

He is now back to using the Canons and they do the job, he gets the shot, but the cameras don't stir his soul and I am sure that he will eventually go back to a camera, (probably medium format) that makes him happy, because after all you just have one life and when you open that case does it glow, or does it look like a snapshot from a Big Box retailer?

Really, this isn't always about dimensions, weight, mtf charts, or pixel size.  

It's about what makes you feel good.

I don't think any of us need a reason for that.

JR
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ruraltrekker

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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2008, 03:55:17 PM »

Yeah, I was really disappointed to see this "new" lens. I just have to say "idiots". Yes, Phase & Hasselblad are idiots coming out with these band-aid T/S "solutions". Just more "duct tape" as I see it.

What is about MF that seems to involve duct tape & bailing wire? I mean, here we are marching forward & yes MF has come a long way (I think the duct tape is in less demand in getting things to work together) but it still is not reasurring to me in attracting my $$$$ investment. I want the best bang for my bucks, not a large tax write off. I'd rather put the money in my back pocket frankly then invest it in gear that is still not totally prime time. I am sure there are many who will argue this statement but I really don't care. I have sat on the sidelines, missing my old hasselbads & 680s, because I am just not buying it - that MF is worth the collection of small hassles and just shot the Canons - and before going digital with a dSLR I rarely shot small format because it just wasn't me. But I have become a new me and I am fine shooting the dSLR.

Funny thing about this is that I am seriously thinking about the Phase camera but then I throw some cold water and I just think I should get another 1Ds III body (and dump my backup II body) & just be done with it. I can make beautiful, well paying work with that setup and the business side of me says to just go that way.

Ken
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Rob C

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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2008, 04:06:25 PM »

If you had to buy one new, available camera to use for the rest of your life, what would it be?




Hi James

No question about it, the right equipment speaks volumes about you; sadly, so does the wrong!

When those things mattered to me, there was nothing like having a 500C and a 500CM sitting on a table, each with a lens and another in its plastic housing. (Do they still ship their lenses like that?) A couple of spare Nikons beside them did no harm either, and a wide collection of lenses for them didnīt break the bank but sure looked impressive! All that was missing was a Leica, but we all tried to say they were for amateurs.

So, to your question, what would I do now, given the life to live again and the business to make it make sense? In a shot, it would be back to whatever model of 500 īblad that works with film might still be available. (As Iīm not buying anymore, I donīt look either, so canīt say for sure.) That, and the best scanner I could get.

You know what? Iīm not even sure that Iīd get into digital printing again; I think that it seems to be turning into a financial drain, much like a boat usually turns out to be! (I know, I know, if you have to ask how much it costs you canīt afford it, but even those who can, big-time, know itīs a killer. Or so they all tell me.)

Rob C

TMARK

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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 04:08:00 PM »

Quote
Anybody that thinks about medium format digital loves photography. 

Not talking digital here (god let's don't talk digital)  but let's talk cameras.

If you had to buy one new, available camera to use for the rest of your life, what would it be?

. . . It makes him feel good.
 

It's about what makes you feel good.


JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The only currently manufactured MF cameras on the market that makes me feel good are the Hy6 and AFi, and mainly the Hy6 because of the rotating back.  Everything else makes me feel, well, less than psyched.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 04:21:14 PM by TMARK »
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Streetshooter

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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2008, 04:55:44 PM »

Quote from: Rob C,Jul 22 2008, 03:06 PM
"If you had to buy one new, available camera to use for the rest of your life, what would it be?"

Well it would have to be completely manual and not be superseded a month after I bought it by special deals from the maker at a much lower price. It would be without batteries and software free so it wouldn't need upgrading every so often. A Hasselblad 500cm and a Linhof would fit the bill nicely. I've already got them and can't see me ever getting rid of them either.

Although I've got many other types of camera, including digital,  these two always feel special when I pick them up.

Surely this new Phase lens must be a new one and not the old model at an inflated price. They can't be that mad can they ?

Pete
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 05:05:46 PM by Streetshooter »
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HarperPhotos

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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2008, 05:21:28 PM »

Gidday Pete,

Nothing surprises me when it comes to camera manufactures.

Example Mamiya bringing out the new Mamiya AF 80mm F2.8D lens which basically is a cosmetic change, when what they should have done was to make it a F2.0 or even F1.9 which they had in there old manual lenses.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 05:25:35 PM by HarperPhotos »
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Simon Harper
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Streetshooter

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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2008, 06:10:44 PM »

Quote
Gidday Pete,

Nothing surprises me when it comes to camera manufactures.

Example Mamiya bringing out the new Mamiya AF 80mm F2.8D lens which basically is a cosmetic change, when what they should have done was to make it a F2.0 or even F1.9 which they had in there old manual lenses.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210000\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey Simon,

I agree. That F1.9  was a really lovely lens too with a unique look. A lens doesn't have to be ultra sharp to be a good one. Some of the best lenses I own are over fifty years old.

Pete
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Don Libby

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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2008, 07:00:45 PM »

Don't even get me started on the poor filter situation on the 28.  If Hassy could do it why not Mamiya?  I think the person who designed the lens wasn't a photographer....

don
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gwhitf

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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2008, 07:11:20 PM »

Submitted copy for new Phase One ads:

* "Phase One and Hartblei: Partners in Mediocrity".

* "Phase One and Hartblei: Taking 1965 Engineering But Marking It Up to 2008 Prices"

* "Phase One and Hartblei: When We Look At Their Lens Sharpness, It Makes Us Feel So Much Better About Our LCDs"

* "Phase One and Mamiya: They Were the Only Camera Left"

* "Phase One and Hartblei: How Do We Do It? With Vodka, That's How!"

--------

It's like Phase One just waited too late to see the writing on the wall. You know that feeling, when you're in the bar at about 2:39am, and everyone's gone except for, well, you know, the ones you'd chew your arm off to escape from the next morning? Well, we've got Mamiya 645 and Hartblei, sitting there at the bar, with their arms around each other, about to doze off, and Phase goes into the bathroom, brushes his teeth and combs his hair, and heads toward the bar, to team up with the only two unclaimed in the house.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 07:18:38 PM by gwhitf »
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smhoer

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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2008, 07:38:58 PM »

Oh please bring back my Contax 645.  It was my favorite MF SLR.
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Scott H.
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James R Russell

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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2008, 08:11:17 PM »

Quote
Submitted copy for new Phase One ads:

* "Phase One and Hartblei: Partners in Mediocrity".

* "Phase One and Hartblei: Taking 1965 Engineering But Marking It Up to 2008 Prices"

* "Phase One and Hartblei: When We Look At Their Lens Sharpness, It Makes Us Feel So Much Better About Our LCDs"

* "Phase One and Mamiya: They Were the Only Camera Left"

* "Phase One and Hartblei: How Do We Do It? With Vodka, That's How!"

--------

It's like Phase One just waited too late to see the writing on the wall. You know that feeling, when you're in the bar at about 2:39am, and everyone's gone except for, well, you know, the ones you'd chew your arm off to escape from the next morning? Well, we've got Mamiya 645 and Hartblei, sitting there at the bar, with their arms around each other, about to doze off, and Phase goes into the bathroom, brushes his teeth and combs his hair, and heads toward the bar, to team up with the only two unclaimed in the house.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is the new Boris with Zeiss glass.     right?  



JR
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 08:31:00 PM by James R Russell »
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