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Author Topic: Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?  (Read 13219 times)

Juanito

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« on: July 13, 2008, 12:45:30 pm »

I'm new to shooting MFDB tethered to my laptop, but loving it. I'm a little concerned though about writing everything to one portable hard drive. I'd feel better about it if my Aptus 22 would write to the CF card in addition to hard drive, but that doesn't seem to be possible.  The risk of losing an entire shoot due to hard drive failure is too real and too scary. How do folks deal with this?

I figure I've got the following options:

- Just not worry about it and stick with one drive until I get back to the studio.

- Possibly setup the two USB drives in some sort of RAID 1 configuration. (Don't know if that's possible.)

- Have a script or program to immediately backup one drive to the other as the photos come in. Is there something like that for Mac? Would that affect performance?

- Just back up to another drive at the end of the shoot while still on location.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

John

Graham Mitchell

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2008, 12:59:33 pm »

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- Just back up to another drive at the end of the shoot while still on location.

I back up onto a DVD before packing up. A portable drive would be nearly as safe and faster.
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flashfredrikson

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 01:05:59 pm »

Hi John,

OK, hardrives crash, but just don't worry too much. I always backup right after the shoot (while still on location or in the studio) or if it's multiple motives after every motive to a second hardrive.
But you can of course set up two portable hds to a raid lvl 1 simply using the softraid solution of mac os. That's actually a nice idea, but even then I would still backup everything immediately to a second drive.

cheers,
martin
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 01:06:57 pm by flashfredrikson »
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snickgrr

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2008, 01:10:29 pm »

Personally, and it's just my opinion, I don't see why everybody is so anal about all this digital stuff.  It wasn't that way with film.  Exposed film was treated as gold for sure but from the shoot location to the lab it wasn't divided into three separate unmarked armored cars guarding it from accidents, terrorism or acts of God.  At the lab it was a rule never to run all your film at the same time in case the line went down but that was about the extent of safeguards.
I stored the processed film in a file cabinet.  That's it.

Now it's five places where files are kept..on tape, underground, off site, DVD, etc etc.

I've had way more screwups with the film lab than with digital files getting lost.

Sure, hard drives go down but I think a modicum of care is enough.  I just transfer files to a separate drive at the end of the day and be done with it.  

Again, just IMHO.
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Snook

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2008, 01:10:58 pm »

Quote
I back up onto a DVD before packing up. A portable drive would be nearly as safe and faster.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207846\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My assistants are constantly backing up to portable firewire drives..:+}
They are cheap and take power from the computer.
My Computer guy does it between every look we do, but that will depend on what your shooting.
When With cards I do double back-ups to 2 NEXTO's, nothing is faster!!:+}
I have never liked DVD's and they take much to long if you are shooting a lot..
The 3 ways would be the best really.
Actually the Hard drives are so cheap I usually just give that to the client when doing Big jobs or catalogues. For 60.00 more or less you can give them a 80Gig firewire hard drive..
Snook
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James R Russell

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2008, 01:28:00 pm »

Quote
Personally, and it's just my opinion, I don't see why everybody is so anal about all this digital stuff.  It wasn't that way with film.  Exposed film was treated as gold for sure but from the shoot location to the lab it wasn't divided into three separate unmarked armored cars guarding it from accidents, terrorism or acts of God.  At the lab it was a rule never to run all your film at the same time in case the line went down but that was about the extent of safeguards.
I stored the processed film in a file cabinet.  That's it.

Now it's five places where files are kept..on tape, underground, off site, DVD, etc etc.

I've had way more screwups with the film lab than with digital files getting lost.

Sure, hard drives go down but I think a modicum of care is enough.  I just transfer files to a separate drive at the end of the day and be done with it. 

Again, just IMHO.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I agree though with film I never got calls for images from projects that were 4 years old.

I actually find storage and cataloging one of the most consuming and highest expense of any function of our studio.

I probably own over 200 hardrives in all various forms, shapes and sizes and though the Lacie's get a bad rap on most forums I've had less issues with the single lacie drives than any other.

For a few years we did the seagate 5 years, in Granite Digital Boxes and those are the most problematic.

The most reliable drives I use are the portable orange Lacie Ruggeds and the Lacie Raid 5's.

Our workflow varies from studio to location.

In studio we shoot direct to a Lacie Raid 5 and manually back up folders between sessions to a second Lacie Raid 5, both on a battery backup system.

On location we shoot to the Orange Lacie Rugged Drives and once again back up manually to a second identical drive, between sessions.

Once the project is complete and renamed, sorted, etc., we put the masters on a series of Lacie Raid 5's, a second set is put to a standard drive, off site and a third is sent to my retoucher.

The main bank of Lacie Raid 5's is running 24hours, 7 days a week on a computer with remote access and I can acess the files almost anywhere in the world.

Yes, with film we didn't worry about it, but with film there was a different expectation, at least from my clients.

JR
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Snook

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2008, 05:29:58 pm »

Quote
I agree though with film I never got calls for images from projects that were 4 years old.

I actually find storage and cataloging one of the most consuming and highest expense of any function of our studio.

I probably own over 200 hardrives in all various forms, shapes and sizes and though the Lacie's get a bad rap on most forums I've had less issues with the single lacie drives than any other.

For a few years we did the seagate 5 years, in Granite Digital Boxes and those are the most problematic.

The most reliable drives I use are the portable orange Lacie Ruggeds and the Lacie Raid 5's.

Our workflow varies from studio to location.

In studio we shoot direct to a Lacie Raid 5 and manually back up folders between sessions to a second Lacie Raid 5, both on a battery backup system.

On location we shoot to the Orange Lacie Rugged Drives and once again back up manually to a second identical drive, between sessions.

Once the project is complete and renamed, sorted, etc., we put the masters on a series of Lacie Raid 5's, a second set is put to a standard drive, off site and a third is sent to my retoucher.

The main bank of Lacie Raid 5's is running 24hours, 7 days a week on a computer with remote access and I can acess the files almost anywhere in the world.

Yes, with film we didn't worry about it, but with film there was a different expectation, at least from my clients.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207855\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hey James What remote software are using if you do not mind me asking...
Is there any way of setting up the clients can access the images also remotely?
Just there images or folders?
Does anybody have any links to good work flow options?
I am always looking for a better faster way to organizing my workflow.
Right now I do straight hard copies..
Also curios as to what is the best and fastest way to rename the files and How long can the file names be with out running into any problems?

Thanks

Snook
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pixjohn

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2008, 12:35:04 am »

Location - I back up after every shot to 2 100 GB G-Tech mini drives.  You can also use software to back up everything in a folder to separate hard drives.  In the office, I back up the G-techs to 2 seagate 750 esata  drives. I keep one drive off site and one hooked up to the system.  I also burn a DVD of the final images.
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James R Russell

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2008, 01:09:35 am »

Quote
Hey James What remote software are using if you do not mind me asking...
Is there any way of setting up the clients can access the images also remotely?
Just there images or folders?
Does anybody have any links to good work flow options?
I am always looking for a better faster way to organizing my workflow.
Right now I do straight hard copies..
Also curios as to what is the best and fastest way to rename the files and How long can the file names be with out running into any problems?

Thanks

Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I use Apple Remote Access.  A wireless G network when I'm on the road.

Client Access . . . I would NEVER do what you are sugesting.    In fact I have a very unique way of deliverying the final files, specifically to each unique client, but it's not for public consumption.

There are services that do something like this, especially for client log ins but I would not use one for my workflow for a lot of reasons.

As far as naming, if tethered we name as we go as long as I'm just using one camera, (which I rarely do).

So I put every shoot day into I-view and manually drag and drop the images into shot order and rename them per shot.  The upside to the medium format previews (the only upside) is that they are small and load fast, so this goes quick.  

I take the renamed files, call the folder master and then copy them 3 to 4 times to three seperate drives.  One raid 5 in NY, on raid 5 in Los Angles and one lacie disk for the retoucher.    The original files are then discarded.

For processing and grading to produce jpegs I use a lot of different converters, usually 3.78 or V4.

For final processing I use Raw Developer.


JR
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 01:11:13 am by James R Russell »
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Dinarius

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2008, 03:30:21 am »

I use these for backup on location.

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/...asp?DriveID=391

Can't recommend them highly enough.

I also use them for delivering to big clients. I get them back when they've transferred the files. Saves a load of time burning DVDs, which I HATE doing.

D.
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NBP

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 09:54:10 am »

Quote
Personally, and it's just my opinion, I don't see why everybody is so anal about all this digital stuff.  It wasn't that way with film.
Sure, hard drives go down but I think a modicum of care is enough.  I just transfer files to a separate drive at the end of the day and be done with it. 

I'm with you on this one too.

You'd be an idiot not to have some system of firewalls - just as you did with film, but there's no need to become obssesd by it - no matter what you do something can always happen. Fortunately nothing does 99.9% of the time if you are organized, careful & use simple common sense.
For the other 0.1% of the time there's a claim form for your professional insurance company.

Personally, I just use the laptop HD and back up to an HD as soon as I get back home/hotel & burn a dvd of the raw files.

At least with an HD or CF card crash someone clever can usually salvage stuff pretty well.
A fogged film or buggered lab process was the end of the line.
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Don Libby

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 11:01:05 pm »

While certainly not in the same realm as shooting in a studio or for a specific client I do have the same problems in securing my files after shooting landscape or nature all day and am several miles (sometime thousands) from home and studio.  

Like Dinarius I too use the Western Digital Passports.  I just returned from Alaska with several thousand images to be processed – all safely stored on four 250gb drives (I had taken a small stack of DVD’s but didn’t use them).  The drives were kept in the same case as my laptop and endured some rough traveling without any problems whatsoever.  These drives are a little larger than a deck of cards and are great to work with. Highly recommended....

don

James R Russell

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2008, 02:24:41 am »

Quote
I'm with you on this one too.

You'd be an idiot not to have some system of firewalls - just as you did with film, but there's no need to become obssesd by it - no matter what you do something can always happen. Fortunately nothing does 99.9% of the time if you are organized, careful & use simple common sense.
For the other 0.1% of the time there's a claim form for your professional insurance company.

Personally, I just use the laptop HD and back up to an HD as soon as I get back home/hotel & burn a dvd of the raw files.

At least with an HD or CF card crash someone clever can usually salvage stuff pretty well.
A fogged film or buggered lab process was the end of the line.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Every photo that you care about matters.  Regardless of  money, career or reputation that is on the line.

Truw with film we never had 3 sets of identical files.  But with film we could't, now we can.

I never walk away from a day without at least 2 sets, rarely less than 3.

JR
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Juanito

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2008, 10:09:27 am »

Quote
Personally, I just use the laptop HD and back up to an HD as soon as I get back home/hotel & burn a dvd of the raw files.
An advertising shoot can involve a lot of production and a lot of money. If a client is spending $25k to $50k or even more for me to be there getting the shot, I don't feel comfortable knowing that the entire shoot sits in one little hard drive. Hard drives can and will go south. Plus, being on location means that it could get dropped, lost or stolen. I'd like to have the shoot in at least two drives before I strike the set.

James, when you say you back up to your Raid drive in the studio, are you doing that via ftp? I'd imagine that if you're on the road, backing up gigabytes of data would take all night with the lousy upload speeds of most networks.

John

Snook

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2008, 10:54:36 am »

Quote
An advertising shoot can involve a lot of production and a lot of money. If a client is spending $25k to $50k or even more for me to be there getting the shot, I don't feel comfortable knowing that the entire shoot sits in one little hard drive. Hard drives can and will go south. Plus, being on location means that it could get dropped, lost or stolen. I'd like to have the shoot in at least two drives before I strike the set.

James, when you say you back up to your Raid drive in the studio, are you doing that via ftp? I'd imagine that if you're on the road, backing up gigabytes of data would take all night with the lousy upload speeds of most networks.

John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Juanito I am the same.. I could not even think about leaving everything on a laptop until I get back.. What happens if some one robs your laptop or it drops or etc.etc..
And my client is paying me big $$$
No way.. I do back ups on the spot after each shot b/c in my line of work any type of reshoot after the point is out of the question due to the expenses involved.
That is part of my service and responsibility. The blaming it on the labs is long gone.
Anybody that is getting paid for their professional service and are not securing back-up is just showing how un-professional they are...:+}
just my opinion of course,
Snook
Then again the guys shooting wheat fields and so maybe it is not a risk for them to return and shoot it again...;+} But a model getting several 10,000's dollars a day and crew is not so easy to reshoot.
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Snook

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2008, 11:25:52 am »

Quote
Juanito I am the same.. I could not even think about leaving everything on a laptop until I get back.. What happens if some one robs your laptop or it drops or etc.etc..
And my client is paying me big $$$
No way.. I do back ups on the spot after each shot b/c in my line of work any type of reshoot after the point is out of the question due to the expenses involved.
That is part of my service and responsibility. The blaming it on the labs is long gone.
Anybody that is getting paid for their professional service and are not securing back-up is just showing how un-professional they are...:+}
just my opinion of course,
Snook
Then again the guys shooting wheat fields and so maybe it is not a risk for them to return and shoot it again...;+} But a model getting several 10,000's dollars a day and crew is not so easy to reshoot.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

PS. Yesterday when I was shooting suddenly the images would not come in anymore with the adjustments I wanted.. I clicked on the little camera to set the incoming images with the adjustments which I always do, and it just would come in Normal. Even after restarting several times...?
Anybody ever have this happen and is there a cure for it?
Thanks, just did not want to flood the forum with another thread for maybe a simple answer..
Thanks again
Snook
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NBP

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2008, 02:53:25 am »

Quote
An advertising shoot can involve a lot of production and a lot of money. If a client is spending $25k to $50k or even more for me to be there getting the shot, I don't feel comfortable knowing that the entire shoot sits in one little hard drive. Hard drives can and will go south. Plus, being on location means that it could get dropped, lost or stolen. I'd like to have the shoot in at least two drives before I strike the set.

You're of course very right, and I do adapt my procedure. (location ad shoots, I do burn the raw's of each shot when each one is finished).
 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 02:56:21 am by NBP »
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clawery

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2008, 09:23:25 am »

John,

Look at this article that we have on our web site.  It will give you a few options on how to back up before and during a shoot.

http://www.captureintegration.com/category/tips-and-trick/

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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Craig Lamson

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2008, 10:33:03 am »

Quote
Every photo that you care about matters.  Regardless of  money, career or reputation that is on the line.

Truw with film we never had 3 sets of identical files.  But with film we could't, now we can.

I never walk away from a day without at least 2 sets, rarely less than 3.

JR
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Backup and more backup!  

A few weeks ago I at a wonderful outdoor wedding..a really cool event...and there were two photographers shooting and a third as assistant.  I was amazed that as the photographers filled a card they would hand it to an assistant would would download the card to a handheld device and then format the card in a camera body hanging around his neck.  He would then return the card to the photographer for reuse.  My wife kept smacking me as I commented each time this ritual took place.  I was totally amazed.  

I have no problem with the download to the handheld but to format the card?  Cards are a dime a dozen and wedding pics are once in a lifetime.

The mother of the bride is an AD client and we work together soon.  I can't wait to ask about the photos.
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DavidB

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Shooting Tethered: One Hard Drive or Two?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 01:19:48 am »

Quote
- Possibly setup the two USB drives in some sort of RAID 1 configuration. (Don't know if that's possible.)[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207842\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Definitely possible using the built-in tools (via Disk Utility) but probably not worth it.  If you've got the drives in separate enclosures and you don't connect them together, the system will mount the first one, and when the 2nd is attached it can decide that it needs re-syncing.  It will then spend a lot of time (hours) and energy re-copying the entire drive.  You can use the system in the meantime, but there's a significant performance penalty.  Not a very robust solution.

Of course, RAID would protect you from the failure of a disk's hardware, but it does nothing to protect you from software/wetware problems (file corruption, accidental deletion, etc).

Quote
- Have a script or program to immediately backup one drive to the other as the photos come in. Is there something like that for Mac? Would that affect performance?
Most solutions along these lines don't actually watch the folder for new files, but occasionally re-sync the source folder to the destination (e.g. every 10 minutes).  You can either get packaged software to do this, or if you're a coder at all you can script something up with the tools available on the OS X command line.
Keep in mind that if you have something continually copying files, you're exposed to some of the same risks as with RAID (e.g. copying corrupted files).  I tend to do manual re-syncs (using the same software, the only difference is that I have some idea of the state of the files before syncing).  For example, between models, during coffee breaks, or just at the end of the session.

I don't shoot tethered much, and if I'm not far from home base and without a laptop I tend to just back up the cards when I get to my studio (where of course the files get distributed to multiple media).  However if I'm on a big enough job (or far enough from home) that I've set up a laptop, the cards only get erased once the files have been backed up to two hard drives (one backup/import, then a synchronise to a second drive).  When doing extended travel/outdoor work where I don't have a laptop, I use two portable drives (e.g. Nextos).

At home base I have at least 3 copies of the files, but I must admit I compromise when on the road and make do with two copies (disregarding the time in the camera before they're backed up at all).  But we do at least split these up into separate luggage whilst travelling.


Quote
A few weeks ago I at a wonderful outdoor wedding..a really cool event...and there were two photographers shooting and a third as assistant.  I was amazed that as the photographers filled a card they would hand it to an assistant would would download the card to a handheld device and then format the card in a camera body hanging around his neck.  He would then return the card to the photographer for reuse.  My wife kept smacking me as I commented each time this ritual took place.  I was totally amazed.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208661\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I must admit did almost exactly this many years ago on my first digital wedding job (to put it in context, one of the cameras was a D30 and our largest cards were 340MB).  In those days cards weren't as cheap (by a factor greater than the difference in filesize between now and then).  But I've learnt a lot since then...

From one point of view it is somewhat depressing that so many "professionals" these days haven't learnt about sensible and safe workflows, but then again I usually have a business card on hand to offer consulting services if they want it!
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