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Author Topic: From camera to print for a newbie  (Read 10280 times)

khb

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From camera to print for a newbie
« on: July 12, 2008, 12:15:44 pm »

Hi,

I am an amateur photographer and would like to know the answers to the following questions:

1. How up-to-date is From Camera to Print? That is, do its lessons hold true for the latest software available for purchase or download, or will it confuse new beginners?

2. How relevant is From Camera to Print to working with Photoshop Elements as opposed to the full version of Photoshop?

3. My tool of choice is Apple's Aperture. Will the lessons learned in From Camera to Print hold true / or easily translatable to Aperture?

Thanks!

Ken
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ErikKaffehr

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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 02:07:47 pm »

Hi yourself,

Here are my answers:

1) Pretty up to date

2) No! Very, sorry for that! Problem is that Elements is dumbed down. Actually I would go that far to say that Elements is a bad thing! There are some other affordable programs for the serious photographers.

Picture Window Pro ( http://dl-c.com/content/view/13/27/ )
or
Photoline 32 ( http://www.pl32.com/ )


3) The basic principles apply to Lightroom or Aperture. The basic principles are very important.

Unfortunately Photoshop CS 3 is the standard tool for photographers, I guess that if you are seriously involved with digital photography you need to invest in Photoshop CS. I'm not saying that Photoshop is better than anything else out there but it is the standard tool of the trade.

Yes, it is overpriced, it is hard to understand and so on. I agree on all that!

Best regards
Erik

Quote
Hi,

I am an amateur photographer and would like to know the answers to the following questions:

1. How up-to-date is From Camera to Print? That is, do its lessons hold true for the latest software available for purchase or download, or will it confuse new beginners?

2. How relevant is From Camera to Print to working with Photoshop Elements as opposed to the full version of Photoshop?

3. My tool of choice is Apple's Aperture. Will the lessons learned in From Camera to Print hold true / or easily translatable to Aperture?

Thanks!

Ken
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 02:14:18 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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Christopher Sanderson

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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 10:52:25 pm »

You may find answers in the Table of Contents.

The principles you learn will be applicable across most programs and both Windows & Mac platforms

Bill in WV

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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 10:54:13 am »

Quote
Hi yourself,

Here are my answers:

1) Pretty up to date

2) No! Very, sorry for that! Problem is that Elements is dumbed down. Actually I would go that far to say that Elements is a bad thing! There are some other affordable programs for the serious photographers.

Picture Window Pro ( http://dl-c.com/content/view/13/27/ )
or
Photoline 32 ( http://www.pl32.com/ )
3) The basic principles apply to Lightroom or Aperture. The basic principles are very important.

Unfortunately Photoshop CS 3 is the standard tool for photographers, I guess that if you are seriously involved with digital photography you need to invest in Photoshop CS. I'm not saying that Photoshop is better than anything else out there but it is the standard tool of the trade.

Yes, it is overpriced, it is hard to understand and so on. I agree on all that!

Best regards
Erik
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Erik,
 
Your reply to question number 2 borders on arrogance as well as ignorance. Dumbed down is hardly fair to an ingeneous program available for about $70. Even Jeff Schewe, my photoshop Guru of choice, has said on one of the videos that Elements is 70% of Photoshop. The DigitalDog, Andrew Rodney, again on this site, has said that in combination with Lightroom, Elements would certainly be adequate if not a viable choice.

With the guidance available in many books, my preference runs to Scott Kelby and his crew, Elements becomes a very workable program for anybody and especially a beginner. Another reference I've been noticing lately is a number of excellent British photo magazines that are heavy into Elements, I assume that has something to do with the price of Photoshop over there. I am and was a user of Elements exclusively until Adobe offered a one-time good deal to Elements/Lightroom users to get into CS3 for less than half price, so I went for it and will probably remain a Photoshop user until Lightroom just totally annihilates it.

It's very easy to appear superior to a noobie by foisting your knowledge of Photoshop upon him, and there are some pretty nifty tools there that don't exist in Elements, but in the right hands, Elements is also a pretty amazing tool!

I have Elements V (after 3 and 4), Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 and use them all. Frankly, the learning curve in Photoshop is very steep and a hinderence to a new guy when it should be about the image. I can't really speak to Aperture as I am a PC guy, but it was used in a workshop I attended and I can say unequivocaly that in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it, it is very impressive.

In answer to his original question, Camera to Print will remain viable for years to come. They discuss principles as well as specifics but mostly the sequence of events you must/should consider on your way to a fine print hanging on the wall. You can believe me that Camera to Print is a better bargain than anything else I have discussed in this diatribe. As a matter of fact, all of the videos so far with Michael and Jeff have, in my opinion at least, been very informative, fun to watch, and above all . . . great bargains.

I suppose we should tell him that regardless of how you get there, full retail or by special deals like I got, once into Photoshop, the upgrades are usually comparatively inexpensive.

Bill in WV
Elements V, Photoshop CS3, and Lightroom
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 11:33:52 am »

I suspect Bill is pretty much right. I personally wouldn't use Elements now, because there are a few tools in full Photoshop that I have become addicted to. But if I hadn't ever had them, I probably wouldn't necessarily miss them.

Also, I'm quite sure that the number of features of Photoshop that I actually use is smaller than the number of features available in Elements, and certainly in Elements plus Lightroom.
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Tklimek

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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 04:12:36 pm »

I have all 3 tutorials with Michael and Jeff and exceptionally pleased with all of them!  Can't wait for the LR 2.0 one!


Speaking of which....any guesses as to when 2.0 will be out?

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

Quote
I suspect Bill is pretty much right. I personally wouldn't use Elements now, because there are a few tools in full Photoshop that I have become addicted to. But if I hadn't ever had them, I probably wouldn't necessarily miss them.

Also, I'm quite sure that the number of features of Photoshop that I actually use is smaller than the number of features available in Elements, and certainly in Elements plus Lightroom.
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Schewe

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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 04:23:32 pm »

Quote
Speaking of which....any guesses as to when 2.0 will be out?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208980\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, not until Lightroom 2.0 is released...and that won't happen until, uh, oh yeah, I can't tell you that...
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ErikKaffehr

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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 05:12:17 pm »

Hi!

Sorry for having the opinion I have. I can admit that I'm wrong, I have no problem with that. I bought PS CS3 a couple of month ago, so my opinion did cost me something like 1000 USD.

My problem with elements has essentially always been that the feature I was interested in was missing. Much of the discussion in the video is about color management and printing with color management. I think that part is pretty much different between CS3 and elements.

I'm very sorry for giving incorrect advice. My views are obviously not shared by quite a few very knowledgeable  authors on this forum.

Best regards
Erik

Quote
Erik,
 
Your reply to question number 2 borders on arrogance as well as ignorance. Dumbed down is hardly fair to an ingeneous program available for about $70. Even Jeff Schewe, my photoshop Guru of choice, has said on one of the videos that Elements is 70% of Photoshop. The DigitalDog, Andrew Rodney, again on this site, has said that in combination with Lightroom, Elements would certainly be adequate if not a viable choice.

With the guidance available in many books, my preference runs to Scott Kelby and his crew, Elements becomes a very workable program for anybody and especially a beginner. Another reference I've been noticing lately is a number of excellent British photo magazines that are heavy into Elements, I assume that has something to do with the price of Photoshop over there. I am and was a user of Elements exclusively until Adobe offered a one-time good deal to Elements/Lightroom users to get into CS3 for less than half price, so I went for it and will probably remain a Photoshop user until Lightroom just totally annihilates it.

It's very easy to appear superior to a noobie by foisting your knowledge of Photoshop upon him, and there are some pretty nifty tools there that don't exist in Elements, but in the right hands, Elements is also a pretty amazing tool!

I have Elements V (after 3 and 4), Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 and use them all. Frankly, the learning curve in Photoshop is very steep and a hinderence to a new guy when it should be about the image. I can't really speak to Aperture as I am a PC guy, but it was used in a workshop I attended and I can say unequivocaly that in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it, it is very impressive.

In answer to his original question, Camera to Print will remain viable for years to come. They discuss principles as well as specifics but mostly the sequence of events you must/should consider on your way to a fine print hanging on the wall. You can believe me that Camera to Print is a better bargain than anything else I have discussed in this diatribe. As a matter of fact, all of the videos so far with Michael and Jeff have, in my opinion at least, been very informative, fun to watch, and above all . . . great bargains.

I suppose we should tell him that regardless of how you get there, full retail or by special deals like I got, once into Photoshop, the upgrades are usually comparatively inexpensive.

Bill in WV
Elements V, Photoshop CS3, and Lightroom
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Bill in WV

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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 02:32:46 am »

Well, I probably came down a bit hard on you, and I should apologize for my attitude as well.

We all have a number of tools at our disposal or at least available to us, and most of the time they do what we need to do. I think in a gadget populated arena like we have available to us, and the supposed short life span of digital equipment we tend to always want the latest and greatest, and pity the poor fool who doesn't agree with us.

Let's all have a good weekend and go shoot some great photos.

Bill in WV
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Bill Evans
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Tklimek

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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 12:08:52 pm »

Removed.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 12:09:37 pm by Tklimek »
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Tklimek

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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2008, 12:10:07 pm »

LOL!!!  Drats!  I thought I might catch you in a moment of wine-inspired weakness or confusion....!    

Todd "Salivating for a "finished" 2.0" in Chicago

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Well, not until Lightroom 2.0 is released...and that won't happen until, uh, oh yeah, I can't tell you that...
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