60HR Lens for Alpa Use

[Toby1014]

hi Toby,

as mentioned many times previously by Rainer and others in different threads here and elsewhere, the 70mm image circle given by Rodenstock is quite "conservative". In fact you will find that it is possible to shift quite a few mm more than the "official" value given in the data sheet.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Correct, but what is not mentioned is the dramatic fall in sharpness even at F11 when shifted past the recomended 70mm image circle.

The same is actually true for the Schneider XL24 - but it is hardly recomeded.

I am happy that you silent agree that Rodenstock will have new WA lenses at fotokina (not only the expected 23) with larger image circle to fit your new ArTec camera.

Or perhaps Rodenstock will do a firmware upgrade (on paper changing their conservartive image circle to a larger one), just like the Sinar did with their ISO settings  

[thsinar]

Dear Toby,

Correct, but what is not mentioned is the dramatic fall in sharpness even at F11 when shifted past the recomended 70mm image circle.
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when I say that the image circle of 70mm is conservative, and that in reality you can shift more than what is "officially" given, it is with the knowledge that you can do it WITHOUT significant loss of sharpness at the edge of the image circle.

I have worked with and assisted Rainer Viertlböck, and I can assure you that he is not to type of person using a shift if there is a loss of sharpness: therefore I can confirm what he is saying, that there are still some 4 to 5mm shift possibilities with a larger 645 sensor.

The same is actually true for the Schneider XL24 - but it is hardly recomeded.
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I have little experience with the Schneider, except for my experience that you have to stop them down and can't use them full open without loss of sharpness at the edge, UNLIKE the Rodenstock which are sharp already full open.

I am happy that you silent agree that Rodenstock will have new WA lenses at fotokina (not only the expected 23) with larger image circle to fit your new ArTec camera.
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May I kindly but firmly ask you not to suggest such?: it is not because I do not answer all and anything in a post that it means that I do confirm what is said. In fact when I keep silent it usually means that I don't know about it or that I do not feel that it is my prerogative to comment.
To suggest in your post that my silence on the subject is an agreement is a little over the top.

Or perhaps Rodenstock will do a firmware upgrade (on paper changing their conservartive image circle to a larger one), just like the Sinar did with their ISO settings   
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Nothing much to comment to such "provocation" than to refer to my technical explanation on the subject of ISO and how it is calculated.

Best regards,
Thierry

[rainer_v]

Rainer, FYI

My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that it is impossible to use Schneider digital XL lenses on the ArTec because the sliding plate will cut into the glass - this is the main reason to chose Rodenstock retrofocus lenses.

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in the speification phase i asked for the possibility to construct the camera in a way that the 24xl will be usable on it,- knowing that many colleagues  prefer the 24xl over the 28HR or already use it.
sinar affirmed me some days ago that the 24xl can be used at infinity with the artec,- at least in theory ( because they have not tried it out yet, but at least following to schneiders lens specifiactions.)

that there are not  ( at this moment ) adapters for the schneider lenses does not mean that the sensor is not closed enough to the rear element to be able to use them,- so anyone can make an adapter for the 24xl, - or sinar will maybe decide to build it in the future.
they have many hands busy now to make the last detail changes on the arTec and to build the "final" arTek for photokina, so i doubt they have much capacities free at the moment for the ( many ) adaption possibilities the camera is inviting for.

[Toby1014]

in the speification phase i asked for the possibility to construct the camera in a way that the 24xl will be usable on it,- knowing that many colleagues  prefer the 24xl over the 28HR or already use it.
sinar affirmed me some days ago that the 24xl can be used at infinity with the artec,- at least in theory ( because they have not tried it out yet, but at least following to schneiders lens specifiactions.)

that there are not  ( at this moment ) adapters for the schneider lenses does not mean that the sensor is not closed enough to the rear element to be able to use them,- so anyone can make an adapter for the 24xl, - or sinar will maybe decide to build it in the future.
they have many hands busy now to make the last detail changes on the arTec and to build the "final" arTek for photokina, so i doubt they have much capacities free at the moment for the ( many ) adaption possibilities the camera is inviting for.
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Rainer, it sounds very good to be able to use the Schneider XL lenses on the arTec, congratulations and good luck with future development.

[Toby1014]

Dear Toby,
when I say that the image circle of 70mm is conservative, and that in reality you can shift more than what is "officially" given, it is with the knowledge that you can do it WITHOUT significant loss of sharpness at the edge of the image circle.

I have worked with and assisted Rainer Viertlböck, and I can assure you that he is not to type of person using a shift if there is a loss of sharpness: therefore I can confirm what he is saying, that there are still some 4 to 5mm shift possibilities with a larger 645 sensor.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208964\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I really doubt this, my experience by looking at architectural files made by the 28HR, shows loss of sharpness in cornors not even fully shifted (within the 70mm) at f8 and f11 - and not to forget quite a lot of lens distortion.

May I kindly but firmly ask you not to suggest such?: it is not because I do not answer all and anything in a post that it means that I do confirm what is said. In fact when I keep silent it usually means that I don't know about it or that I do not feel that it is my prerogative to comment.
To suggest in your post that my silence on the subject is an agreement is a little over the top.
Nothing much to comment to such "provocation" than to refer to my technical explanation on the subject of ISO and how it is calculated.

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Relax, Thierry - I am just teasing you a bit - dont be so serious

[thsinar]

I really doubt this, my experience by looking at architectural files made by the 28HR, shows loss of sharpness in cornors not even fully shifted (within the 70mm) at f8 and f11 - and not to forget quite a lot of lens distortion.
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May be a bad sample. I have the opposite experience.

Relax, Thierry - I am just teasing you a bit - dont be so serious
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I cannot let it written, that someone suggests that I "agree to/confirm" something when in fact I did not say/write a word about the issue. It turns easily into "Thierry has confirmed/announced, etc ..." in the next thread. I prefer to put it straight. Thanks for your understanding.
Others than this I do not feel especially serious.

 

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry