Color Management

[nosredla]

At one time I had problems getting my printed output to match what I saw on my monitor. After reading about color management, I bought a Greta Macbeth calibrator and began to calibrate monthly. As a result, I now see an almost perfect match between printed output and monitor.

However, things did not unfold quite as I expected. I mostly use Lightroom for printing and get the best match if I tell Lightroom to let Windows manage the printing. If I tell Lightroom to use a printer profile I often get a mismatch.

Everything I read tells me the best results should come from using printer profiles but that has not been my experience. While I am happy with the results I get from Windows color management, I still wonder why the printer profile (provided by Canon for my Pro 9000) work less well.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

[Jonathan Wienke]

First off, there is a Color Management forum specifically for questions such as yours. Second, unless you post the color management settings in Lightroom, your printing settings, and the configuration of your print driver, there's no way we can help you.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I guess that you may have problem the printer profile used twice. You need need to find an option  in the print dialog to not use use color management in the printer driver. Printing is nowdays a mess...

I enclose a screen dump from Mac OS X, there is something similar in Windows.

I'm very sorry but the correct settings are very hard to find.

Check link below:
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/starter_canon.pdf

Best regards
Erik

At one time I had problems getting my printed output to match what I saw on my monitor. After reading about color management, I bought a Greta Macbeth calibrator and began to calibrate monthly. As a result, I now see an almost perfect match between printed output and monitor.

However, things did not unfold quite as I expected. I mostly use Lightroom for printing and get the best match if I tell Lightroom to let Windows manage the printing. If I tell Lightroom to use a printer profile I often get a mismatch.

Everything I read tells me the best results should come from using printer profiles but that has not been my experience. While I am happy with the results I get from Windows color management, I still wonder why the printer profile (provided by Canon for my Pro 9000) work less well.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
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[peteh]

Hi,

I guess that you may have problem the printer profile used twice. You need need to find an option  in the print dialog to not use use color management in the printer driver. Printing is nowdays a mess...

I enclose a screen dump from Mac OS X, there is something similar in Windows.

I'm very sorry but the correct settings are very hard to find.

Check link below:
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/starter_canon.pdf

Best regards
Erik
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did you double profile?Maybe?

[nosredla]

Jonathon

Thanks for pointing out my ignorance so effectively.  I had thought that posting in the beginner's section would protect me from responses like yours.

[nosredla]

Erik

Thanks for your suggestion.  I have checked my settings carefully, and I don't believe that is the cause.

To clarify, I don't believe I have a problem that needs solving as my prints do match the screen the way I am doing them and I am happy with the results.

I am simply curious why relying on Windows gives me a better result than using a printer profile.  I had thought it was supposed to be the other way round.

Perhaps the profile supplied by Canon is not very good, or not good for my printer?

[Brad Proctor]

Jonathon

Thanks for pointing out my ignorance so effectively.  I had thought that posting in the beginner's section would protect me from responses like yours.
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When I started reading this forum, I learned pretty quickly to set him to "ignore"

[Graystar]

Color management gets real messy real fast because every piece of software is doing its own thing and it’s up to you to coordinate the various color management activities.

You didn’t say what color space you’re using for your images.  I would imagine it’s sRGB because that would fit with what you’ve described.

Unless you explicitly turned off color management in your printer settings, then the printer is actually performing the color management that’s required.  If that is the case, then when you tell Lightroom to use a printer profile then you are likely applying the profile twice...once by lightroom and once by the printer driver.

[Mark D Segal]

While Jonathan may "sound" a bit gruff, he very often makes good points so don't be put off by the style and focus on the substance. It is true that there can be several things going on causing the difficulty you are having. It is also true that a diagnosis of your specific problem really depends on providing ALL the information Jonathan mentions. I would also add that you should describe more specifically the nature of the disconnects you are getting. This way it may be possible to recommend exact solutions to your problem.

[nosredla]

Thank you all for your comments, and I see that I have obviously not been clear, so will try again.

I do not have a problem, and am not asking for advice on fixing anything.  I am very happy with my printed output. It looks just like the image on my calibrated monitor.  That is exactly what I want and I do not want to change anything.  

Also, I am confident that my settings are correct because they are giving me the results I want.  I am also sure they have been correct when I have used a printer profile because I do understand the difference.

That said, I have read much advice in the past that the way to get best performance from a printer is to use a printer profile, rather than let Windows manage the colours.

My post was the result of my curiosity that my own experience is the opposite of this.  I thought someone with more knowledge than I of the different technical approaches might be able to suggest a reason based on a comparison of the two systems, not on the assumption that I have made a mistake in my settings.

Many thanks again.

[Mark D Segal]

That said, I have read much advice in the past that the way to get best performance from a printer is to use a printer profile, rather than let Windows manage the colours.

My post was the result of my curiosity that my own experience is the opposite of this.  I thought someone with more knowledge than I of the different technical approaches might be able to suggest a reason based on a comparison of the two systems, not on the assumption that I have made a mistake in my settings.

Many thanks again.
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Firstly, either Lightroom manages the colours using the printer profile, or the printer manages the colours using the printer driver. Windows does not manage colour. The advice you reference about the preference for Lightroom managing the colours with a printer profile is correct. If you are not getting at least as good results this way there is something wrong with the profile or the settings. But since you have confidence in your settings and we don't know them all, you would remain the best positioned to evaluate the reasons why the profile path is not giving you as good quality as you get by letting the printer driver handle colour.

[Graystar]

I don’t know whether you have Windows Vista, which uses the new Windows Color System (WCS), or Windows XP, which uses the Image Color Management (ICM, which is also in Vista), but either way, both systems use profiles.  So it’s not a question of using profiles vs. Windows color management because Windows is using the same exact profiles that you’re selecting in Lightroom.

Other than a physical problem with your printer (bad cartridge, clogged head) there are no inherent technical faults in color management what would cause your colors to be off.  Color Management works.  Your printer works.  Therefore, if your colors are off then there’s something wrong with your settings.

As I said before, color management can get messy real fast because every piece of software is doing its own thing.  If you changed a setting in Lightroom, but didn’t adjust your printer’s color management options, then I can pretty much guarantee that the problem is with your settings.