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rgs

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« on: July 09, 2008, 12:34:17 pm »

I am still using a lot of film, mostly 6x7 and some 35mm as well. I have been able to get IQ very close but not yet equal to my 6x7 with digital cameras but 35mm usually leaves me a bit disappointed. But then that was always the case which is why I wound up shooting 6x7 and 4x5 even when film was the only choice.

I don't have access to one of the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark IIIs, but I am sure it would more than match my 6x7, as will, I am sure, the long rumored replacement for the 5D if it ever arrives.

Well, long introduction. To the point. I am curious to hear from anyone who still prefers using 35mm film as to why you choose it. While I am sure more objective quality can be had from a digital file, I also know that artistic and expressive considerations may well trump pure science. I just think the discussion will be very enlightening.

RGS
Richard Smith Photography
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DarkPenguin

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 12:40:02 pm »

They don't make the film I liked anymore.
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sergio

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 04:27:42 pm »

I have nowhere to develop colour film nowadays. I do miss somethings of the film days. I am a more practical kind of photographer, I can take a little more grain here or there, maybe not that incredible high resolution, as long as technology doesn't get in the way of expression. Now I still have my nice and neat neg sleeves, some more than 30 years old, and drowning in DVDs and HDs.
I wonder if I was right when I bought my first DSLR and thought it was going to be cheaper and easier. Mmhhh.

Daguerreotypes. One of a kind, and irreproducible. On camera positive. And above all: one shot, maybe two, to archive and catalog.  

Mmhhh.
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Er1kksen

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 09:11:27 pm »

Mostly I like film for the differences in the ways it renders light, as compared to digital. Highlight rolloff is a lot gentler, and I don't mind letting shadows go to black at all, even though it bugs me on digital for some reason.

If I could only shoot one film along with my digital, I know just the one I would pick: Kodak BW400CN. This is more of a subjective, artistic thing than an objective quality thing. The only other specification: it must be processed in 1-hour photo chemicals. I hate what those chemicals do to color film, but it does something to this film that gives it rich tones, great contrast, and grain seems to be nonexistent. I haven't replicated its color response in digital in any way I've tried. And it's relatively cheap; it used to go for $8.50 at wal-mart for a 3-roll pack. Now it's about $10 for a three roll pack, but that's still pretty good, at about $3.30 per roll.

For most things, though, I prefer digital.
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wolfnowl

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 12:30:14 am »

I miss Kodachrome 25.  It was a tough film to work with, but I loved it.

Mike.
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capital

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 02:07:03 am »

I enjoy the way Kodak's E100VS looks. There is something unique about transparencies and that is their quality of light, something that a computer monitor or even print fails to capture.

Like you, I find 35mm lacking, and 4x5 is very pleasing, but if I am traveling light or for portability, I revert to 35mm.

Quote
But then that was always the case which is why I wound up shooting 6x7 and 4x5 even when film was the only choice.
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Anders_HK

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 09:14:44 am »

Quote
I enjoy the way Kodak's E100VS looks. There is something unique about transparencies and that is their quality of light, something that a computer monitor or even print fails to capture.

Like you, I find 35mm lacking, and 4x5 is very pleasing, but if I am traveling light or for portability, I revert to 35mm.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206900\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Film is still magic! Veliva 50  

35mm became too small. I now shoot 6x7 in Mamiya 7, simply because I do not wish to let film go. I more use Leaf Aptus 65 for digital on Mamiya 645. Colors are very nice... but... it is still something magic in film.

The Leaf has me interested in flat stitching of panoramas using a 4x5. I am reading up and researching on that because I have never used 4x5. But... it also have me led my curiousity of using film on 4x5!

The technology is not what drives me, but... different ways of seeing and in capturing colors for the images....

Nikon DSLRs had me disappointed on that... D200, D50..., also because of the machine gun photography it leads you to.

Velvia 50 is lovely for landscape  

Regards
Anders
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mikeseb

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 09:39:49 am »

I have given up shooting 35mm film because to my eye digital SLR's make better images (please, no film-vs-digital jihad--just one man's opinion!), and do so with far greater convenience. On the digital end, I shoot with a D300 and a Kodak ProBack; granted, this MF back is far from bleeding edge, but it produces beautiful images.

I still shoot quite a bit of medium-format film, ranging from 6x4.5 (Contax) to 6x7 (Mamiya 7). I think medium-format film--with all its vagaries, inconveniences, and frustrations--produces more beautiful images than my DSLR, and at least as good as the ProBack. I find the difference especially marked for portraiture, which is the majority of what I shoot. I'm also fairly certain that my Mamiya 7 outresolves my ProBack/Contax combination. Perhaps one of the newer Phase or Leaf backs would have me singing a different tune, but my wallet ain't phat enough for me to find out in the forseeable future. And I'd love to have one of those new Imacon/Hasselblad film scanners to speed up my glacially-slow scanning workflow (Nikon 8000), but again I don't have $13k or $20k lying around....

Biggest affordable problem I'm having right now is finding C41 chemistry that anyone will ship to me. Who knew that the stuff was regarded as about as hazardous as nuclear reactor waste?
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bob carnie

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 10:04:57 am »

I am really interested in a 4x5 metal field camera that could use film as well as attaching a digital capture back.
I have seen some of the Betterlight files and they are quite impressive.. a bit limited in application , but very high quality when used well.

I work in both worlds, digital and analoque and appreciate both. Most of my personal work of late has been HP5 in Pyro using a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder and love the look of the mural prints tri toned.

Anyone here using digital capture on 4x5?? I would love to here ideas, suggestions on these units, as I do see one of these camera systems in my not to distant future.
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PSA DC-9-30

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 07:30:29 am »

Any discussion of film's purported advantages over digital at this stage must necessarily be tempered a knowledge of the disadvantages, inconveniences, and loss of image quality inherent in scanning. After finally getting into digital last year, I used to think I would shoot film occasionally, but my experiences in scanning my old Kodachromes have been so disappointing and time-consuming, that I think I will never return. Medium and large format films are of course a somewhat different story, but for 35mm, as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty much history.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 07:32:11 am by PSA DC-9-30 »
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Rob C

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 11:26:34 am »

Quote
Any discussion of film's purported advantages over digital at this stage must necessarily be tempered a knowledge of the disadvantages, inconveniences, and loss of image quality inherent in scanning. After finally getting into digital last year, I used to think I would shoot film occasionally, but my experiences in scanning my old Kodachromes have been so disappointing and time-consuming, that I think I will never return. Medium and large format films are of course a somewhat different story, but for 35mm, as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty much history.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207255\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

PSA

I wonder what kind of scanner you have been using for the Kodachromes?

I use a CanoScan FS4000US and manage to get better, crisper prints (b/w, mark you) now, in the office, than I did from the same transparencies when they were commercially drum scanned and reproduced four colour litho on large calendar pages some years ago.

But you have a point - it is very easy to forget about the down sides that film provided, sweet little surprises like scratches, dirt that dried into the emulsion, fingerprints, X-Ray casts (mostly greenish skin) and all manner of damage. And the spotting.

The practical truth is that the F3 is never used despite a freezer with lots of film in it; the D200 gets whatever photography I find to do. But that´s now on an amateur basis and I know I would be thinking something else, at greater cost, if I were still earning my keep. Also on a practical level, the darkroom has long given way to the lightroom and there is no going back anymore. Kodachrome probably doesn´t exist now, outwith my freezer, and Lausanne may have stopped processing it - I have not checked this out for ages. E6 is now a huge problem in my part of Spain and so even 120 film wouldn´t help me much... I never liked colour negative.

But, it sure was nice and easy looking at one´s pics on a lightbox and making quick edits!

Black and white was an odd sort of animal - on 35mm I used a lot of FP3 and its later iteration FP4 and also HP3 and HP4; on 120 I used TXP 120 and found that the slower films didn´t work as well for some odd reason. All of them went through D76 1+1. There was no time for funny developers in what was a frantic hurry whenever I got busy.

Today, if I had the darkroom and the loose cash, it would be a 500CM and whatever is closest to TXP. I think (I know) I would still scan, though, so that would mean even more money to Victors´old company! You might have been excused for thinking that photography would become less expensive as time rolled by...

Rob C
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 11:46:29 am by Rob C »
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SecondFocus

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 11:41:49 pm »

I pretty much limit my use of digital for assignments that call for it and anything I need very quickly. Otherwise I prefer medium format film.

I just installed a wall system for putting up prints for evaluation for paper types etc. Mostly for my personally generated projects, it is all 8 1/2x11, 13x19 and 17x22 prints from drum scans of medium format film. And the prints are just amazing.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 11:49:58 pm »

I have been a slide shooter for almost 20 years now, and I just love the results from the current crop of Fuji slide films (Velvia, especially). I mostly shoot landscape and travel in 35mm, with my trusty EOS 1V. Several factors contribute to the fact that I have never bought into the DSLR world:

1. The digital equivalent of the 1V is prohibitely expensive to me. the 5D could do it, but I need a rugged camera;

2. I have developed a nice workflow for slide selection and scanning;

3. I love the results from slide film;

4. I do not have to worry about backups, after all, I have the slide in my hands. And I use proper storage for the slides.

In my opinion, there is something to be said about the luminosity, brilliance, and clarity, that one can experience from a slide. I am however paying close attention to the 5D successor. If it has better weathering seals, it could be it.

Hank

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 10:47:16 am »

Quote
Well, long introduction. To the point. I am curious to hear from anyone who still prefers using 35mm film as to why you choose it. While I am sure more objective quality can be had from a digital file, I also know that artistic and expressive considerations may well trump pure science. I just think the discussion will be very enlightening.

RGS
Richard Smith Photography
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206689\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Another voice from the dark side here.  Prior to our switch to digital we were spending $20-25k a year on a mix of 35mm and MF film.  In the last five years we've bought exactly eleven rolls, meanwhile shooting more images than ever.  There's not a roll of film out there that would move me to pay over $25k a year to switch our business back to film.  That's $25k we can choose to put in our pockets or invest in the race to keep up with the digital Joneses.  The Joneses can do what they want, and we put most of it to better use.  From the client viewpoint there's certainly no advantage to film, and meanwhile there are great advantages to digital.

We still pop several hundred frames of LF chromes a year, but it's never for "better" quality.  It's for the movements on the camera.  Give us a DSLR with LF movements, and we'd gladly leave that behind too, both for cost and convenience.  Yeah, there are LF digibacks out there, but none meet our criteria.  The minute they do, it's byebye film entirely.
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Er1kksen

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 11:06:51 am »

Quote
I have given up shooting 35mm film because to my eye digital SLR's make better images (please, no film-vs-digital jihad--just one man's opinion!), and do so with far greater convenience. On the digital end, I shoot with a D300 and a Kodak ProBack; granted, this MF back is far from bleeding edge, but it produces beautiful images.

I still shoot quite a bit of medium-format film, ranging from 6x4.5 (Contax) to 6x7 (Mamiya 7). I think medium-format film--with all its vagaries, inconveniences, and frustrations--produces more beautiful images than my DSLR, and at least as good as the ProBack. I find the difference especially marked for portraiture, which is the majority of what I shoot. I'm also fairly certain that my Mamiya 7 outresolves my ProBack/Contax combination. Perhaps one of the newer Phase or Leaf backs would have me singing a different tune, but my wallet ain't phat enough for me to find out in the forseeable future. And I'd love to have one of those new Imacon/Hasselblad film scanners to speed up my glacially-slow scanning workflow (Nikon 8000), but again I don't have $13k or $20k lying around....

Biggest affordable problem I'm having right now is finding C41 chemistry that anyone will ship to me. Who knew that the stuff was regarded as about as hazardous as nuclear reactor waste?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206976\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For the C-41 chemistry, have you tried freestyle photo? I know people who regularly get the stuff from them...
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telyt

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2008, 04:16:24 pm »

I thought I would miss K25 once my stash was gone, but on my last roll I was able to make direct comparisons between photos made on K25 and similar photos made with the Leica DMR, using the same lenses on each camera.  To make a long story short, it was a good thing that was my last K25.

From a technical POV the photos made with the DMR blew the K25 photos away: image detail, color accuracy, dynamic range, all in favor of the DMR.  What I miss most about using 35mm slide film is the camera I was using, the Leicaflex SL and especially its viewfinder.
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situgrrl

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2008, 05:15:42 pm »

Having shot extensively with digital, I'm now almost 100% film (mainly 35mm.)

I don't want to be - it's a total pain - and for colour, digital is so much better it's untrue.  For B&W - to me, the jury is out - certainly digital enlarges better but it doesn't have quite the same tonality - having said that, I have to moonlight as a university student to access Nikon 9000 scanners to pull it all out - I've not been happy with any domestic scanner I've used.

The reason for me is that I don't like digital cameras - or rather, the digital cameras that I can afford.  I've realised SLRs aren't for me and an M8 costs a quarter of my annual income - give or take.  As a result, I use a battered M4-P and shoot exclusively black and white now.  I miss colour about twice a year.  I miss the convenience of digital every time I finish a roll of film.  There are 15 rolls on the shelf to be devved.  There are 7 more on top of that to be scanned and I know I won't have the time, certainly to scan, until late October.  If it were just the 22 rolls, it would be a mission...and how many will I shoot over the next 2 months?!

wolfnowl

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Discussion - Opinions on film today
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2008, 07:47:38 pm »

Picked up some Ilford XP2 400 today... nostalgia?  Maybe...

Mike.
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