Give up or stick with ZD Back?

[Frank Doorhof]

Hi,
Mamiya told me BEFORE your issues that everything should be solved with the new batch of units, that would be delivered from than on.

I cannot comment on that issue further but I do have my doubts seeing several other posts and mails I get.

However it could be that dealers are selling old stock, but that again seems unlickely, but I really don't know.
I know the FIRST back I got for testing was gorgous.

[rweissman]

Anders, a few questions:
1) Are you using the Aptus 65 with the Mamiya AFD II?
2) What are the principal areas of improvement, as you note that the 'step' in image quality was 'significant.'
3) Did you have any Mamiya AFD camera issues in using the Aptus back?

Best regards,

Ron

Frank,

Both of us wrote well of ZD in past. You experienced the purple blotches that per what I recall you at time were told by Mamiya was limited to certain batches of ZD backs. Please clarify to readers if it was at that time you were told by Mamiya that the problem with ZD were fixed, or that you have also been told so after the problem I posted of ZD earlier this year, see http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....topic=22698&hl=. It is worthwile for others to have info of if Mamiya may indeed have fixed known ZD problems. I should point out that the problem I encountered was also purple related but different from yours with blotches. The problem I pointed out seemed present in all ZD backs and cameras at the time. I have not yet seen info of that this has been fixed.

To anyone considering the ZD, my advise is to do thorough testing in order to detect what has been known problems before committing money on a ZD.
Ron,

I have the Aptus 65. Like you I am not making money on photography, but using the Aptus has become the digital equivalence to enjoying photography again. Already when I open images at defaults in CS3 they have colors very well adjusted to what is pleasing, much more so than the ZD and also the D200.

Image quality from Aptus 65 is same as from Aptus 75 but with a slight crop sensor (same as a crop of Aptus 75 sensor chip seems like). The step up from ZD was significant in image quality. I do not hesitate using it at ISO 800 when required, however a trick is to not use such photos at full image size, thus the noise seem limited to a very fine grain. At low ISO Aptus 65 is stellar. The ZD uses the same sensor as Aptus 22, but it appears that Leaf has been successful in their product. Aptus 65 & 75 is the newer sensor technology from Leaf. Phase One P30 & P30+ are indeed also worthy of consideration. Do check on pricing, Aptus 65 is lower priced than Aptus 22.

Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Anders_HK]

Anders, a few questions:
1) Are you using the Aptus 65 with the Mamiya AFD II?
2) What are the principal areas of improvement, as you note that the 'step' in image quality was 'significant.'
3) Did you have any Mamiya AFD camera issues in using the Aptus back?

Best regards,

Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206121\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ron,

1) Current with an AFD which I bought used in February, due plan to upgrade to AFDIII.
2) Considerably less noise than ZD. ISO 50 & 100 are super clean, per memory also at 20-30 seconds night exposures. Colors and details are much better. With the Aptus the camera do not feel limited to me. I do use it for landscape, scenery, people etc. The A65 makes it feel like being back to flexibility of using different films (ISO settings) and more useable than my Nikon D200 was. The large screen is a very useful tool to judge if an image capture is good, but opening in CS3 the images look consistent better when viewing on computer screen.
3) At times when switching from my 28mm the camera locks up. Removing and inserting battery and/or back solves it. However, I do use the AFD and not AFDII at moment.

Regards
Anders

[Justinr]

But, we all know that megapixels are only one aspect of the equation, in in many people's arguments, not the most important factor. The allure of MFDBs , at least for me, is the added Dynamic Range, depth of field, and pixel SIZE in the images so I can work with them in my post-processing workflow. In that regard, quirks, troubles, etc, Medium Format digital photography is where I want to stay, and still beats anything, in my opinion, from the traditional digital slr makers.

I would agree entirely with that Josh and add that MF puts the onus back on photography rather than gadgetry.

Justin.

[James R Russell]

I would agree entirely with that Josh and add that MF puts the onus back on photography rather than gadgetry.

Justin.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206177\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Don't think that just because it's more difficult, it's better.  Making even a good photograph is a lot of work, no reason to compound it into painful work.

This doesn't mean the ZD is good or bad, actually I've only held one, never shot with one and probably never will.

I see the allure of a medium format version of a Pentax 6x7 which the ZD camera somewhat reminded me of, but I don't see dealing with the limitations regardless of costs.

JR

[Justinr]

Don't think that just because it's more difficult, it's better.  Making even a good photograph is a lot of work, no reason to compound it into painful work.

This doesn't mean the ZD is good or bad, actually I've only held one, never shot with one and probably never will.

I see the allure of a medium format version of a Pentax 6x7 which the ZD camera somewhat reminded me of, but I don't see dealing with the limitations regardless of costs.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206185\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually I find working with a ZD a lot easier than the rather erratic Canon I have. Certainly the lens choice is limited but I find that a MF makes you far more aware of what you are doing than an SLR, whether film or digital. It's akin to a motorcycle and car, riding is the thinking man's driving. MF is the thinking mans photography

Justin.

[SecondFocus]

I have used the 645ZD with no green casts, blue worms or anything else. And as far as the error codes and having to pull the battery out etc, there is a firmware upgrade for the 645 bodies that corrects the problem. Check with MAC Group.

[photoman888]

I also have a ZD back which I purchased last September. For the first couple of months I was getting the "db error" all the time. One day I did a few hours worth of testing and figuired out that it is very important that you have the camera on the correct settings for the type of lense you have on the camera. You have auto focus, manual focus and "in between" Example: 120mm macro lenses. Once I figuired out the settings for the different lense types I never got the message again, Oh except when I forget to change the setting when I change lense type.  

For myself the ZD back has been awesome. I sell my photographs as fine art and since purchasing my MF equipment, the photographs I have taken with it and offered for sale have paid for all my equipment and then some. I do agree the ZD back may not be for everyone, But for $7000.00 I am more than happy with it.  

[rweissman]

The saga continues....with a positive resolution by Mamiya.

I was phoned today by Anthony, who works for the MAC group in New York and handles customer support for US ZD customers.

My ZD has been in for servicing, as I noted on my original post that launched this thread. Apparently, he had both read my various posts and received my contact information from the dealer who had sent in my camera for servicing. Anthony could not have been more helpful.

Here's what I learned from the call:

--Mamiya has replaced my ZD back with a new back; the camera should arrive tomorrow.

--He was able to duplicate my "DB ERROR" and camera freezing problem. Until Mamiya has more information and has seen more backs, they are not speculating at this point about the root cause. He will be asking my dealer to send in his back as well (which I also reported as having the DB ERROR issue. At that point, they may have a firmer idea as to the source of the problem.

--Someone on this forum reported that a recent MAC group firmware update fixes the DB ERROR problem. Anthony said that the only recent firmware update for the AFD II solves certain problems for users of Phase One backs (the P25, I think). There is no firmware upgrade that solves the DB ERROR issue.

--Anthony confirmed that there is a green tint problem when using Adobe Lightroom and believes this a problem on Adobe's end. Early / beta versions of Lightroom did not have this problem but production versions shipping do have the problem. Mamiya contacted Adobe more than two months ago regarding this problem and is awaiting a response from them. Anthony noted, as many of us have discovered as well, that the green color cast does not appear with other converters. So the ball is in Adobe's court. If anyone knows the right person to contact at Adobe, please post it so that we can encourage the company to do the right thing.

--Anthony asked that I call him early next week after receiving and working with the replacement back

--Anthony has also tried to contact my fellow  San Francisco poster, Josh, to ask him about his issues.

--Anthony encouraged other US customers to contact him with their issues:

---info@mamiya.com or
--914-347-3300.

The call was most encouraging. Anthony could not have been more courteous or more helpful.


Ron Weissman

[JDBFreeheel]

The saga continues....with a positive resolution by Mamiya.

I was phoned today by Anthony, who works for the MAC group in New York and handles customer support for US ZD customers.

My ZD has been in for servicing, as I noted on my original post that launched this thread. Apparently, he had both read my various posts and received my contact information from the dealer who had sent in my camera for servicing. Anthony could not have been more helpful.

Here's what I learned from the call:

--Mamiya has replaced my ZD back with a new back; the camera should arrive tomorrow.

--He was able to duplicate my "DB ERROR" and camera freezing problem. Until Mamiya has more information and has seen more backs, they are not speculating at this point about the root cause. He will be asking my dealer to send in his back as well (which I also reported as having the DB ERROR issue. At that point, they may have a firmer idea as to the source of the problem.

--Someone on this forum reported that a recent MAC group firmware update fixes the DB ERROR problem. Anthony said that the only recent firmware update for the AFD II solves certain problems for users of Phase One backs (the P25, I think). There is no firmware upgrade that solves the DB ERROR issue.

--Anthony confirmed that there is a green tint problem when using Adobe Lightroom and believes this a problem on Adobe's end. Early / beta versions of Lightroom did not have this problem but production versions shipping do have the problem. Mamiya contacted Adobe more than two months ago regarding this problem and is awaiting a response from them. Anthony noted, as many of us have discovered as well, that the green color cast does not appear with other converters. So the ball is in Adobe's court. If anyone knows the right person to contact at Adobe, please post it so that we can encourage the company to do the right thing.

--Anthony asked that I call him early next week after receiving and working with the replacement back

--Anthony has also tried to contact my fellow  San Francisco poster, Josh, to ask him about his issues.

--Anthony encouraged other US customers to contact him with their issues:

---info@mamiya.com or
--914-347-3300.

The call was most encouraging. Anthony could not have been more courteous or more helpful.
Ron Weissman
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207194\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Ron,

Thanks.  I did receive a voicemail from Anthony today and will call him tomorrow; I am on a short vacation in Santa Fe and plan to use the ZD back with my AFD a ton this week to see what errors, etc come up so I can document it for Anthony.  My ZD back is apparently a very early one, so I wonder if Anthony will want me to send mine in.  

Ron, I PM'ed you with my contact info so we can discuss this more off-thread.

I will update this thread with more info as I work with Anthony.

More later.

-Josh

[rweissman]

Josh,
I did not get your private message. Send me one via rweissman@gmail.com.  Enjoy Santa Fe and don't miss Canyon Road.

Regards,
Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks.  I did receive a voicemail from Anthony today and will call him tomorrow; I am on a short vacation in Santa Fe and plan to use the ZD back with my AFD a ton this week to see what errors, etc come up so I can document it for Anthony.  My ZD back is apparently a very early one, so I wonder if Anthony will want me to send mine in. 

Ron, I PM'ed you with my contact info so we can discuss this more off-thread.

I will update this thread with more info as I work with Anthony.

More later.

-Josh
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207212\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Rudy Torres]

Ron

It's good to hear that your experience with Mamiya US has been cooperative.  I've not been so lucky. Since my purchase of the 645Zd system back in the middle of January, I have had camera freezing issues and a few db errors. I have spoken and emailed Anthony with these issues many times.  Mamiya has never offered to replace my ZD back and I have felt almost a "washing of the hands" with these issues by Mamiya. It is frustrating for me. My opinion of the ZD MEF file is quite high. The images are great as long as you stay at 100ISO or less.  No problem for me. That's usually where I shoot normally. It's the shooting workflow which makes using with the ZD System painful. Having to work through chronic technical problems in front of clients is not a good thing. It will be interesting to hear of your experience with the replacement back.

- Rudy Torres

[Justinr]

Mmmmm........ I wonder how'll get on over here in Ireland. It's a pretty good bet that I am the only owner of a ZD in the Republic (well certainly the only one that's purchased through the Irish dealer) and I doubt that said dealer would have a clue as to what I'm on about.

Might be worth a try if I get totally fed up with the cast, which I'm not, but the db error is a pain.

Justin.

[JDBFreeheel]

Mmmmm........ I wonder how'll get on over here in Ireland. It's a pretty good bet that I am the only owner of a ZD in the Republic (well certainly the only one that's purchased through the Irish dealer) and I doubt that said dealer would have a clue as to what I'm on about.

Might be worth a try if I get totally fed up with the cast, which I'm not, but the db error is a pain.

Justin.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Justin,
My suggestion would be to wait a few days to see what the outcome for us US-based folks are and then you can use that information to help "guide" your experience with Mamiya support.
-Josh