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Author Topic: Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?  (Read 24932 times)

Panopeeper

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #80 on: July 08, 2008, 01:04:50 am »

Thanks, gentlemen, that's what I wanted to hear.

I register with satisfaction your arguments

1. for the greater bit depth even if the "excess" bits represent only noise,

2. again lossy compression of raw files.

Now we can move on and forget all formerly said nonsense about how harmless Nikon's lossy compression is.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 01:06:46 am by Panopeeper »
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Gabor

joofa

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2008, 06:10:12 am »

Two more comments on dither:

(1) Previously when I mentioned the below:

Quote
Quote
Btw, what is the measure of "effectivity" in this regard?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206314\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Measured as the trade off between the output variance in intensity from the mean value of the output in a portion of the picture which was of constant intensity at the input averaged over all inputs, and the deviation of mean output from the input.
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The sum of the "variance" quantity (sometimes called apparent noise) and the "deviation" quantity (sometimes called tonal quality) defines the reconstruction error variance.  Degradation represented by tonal quality is perceptually more annoying, and hence, a good quantization scheme should seek to decrease tonal quality degradation, at the expense of apparent noise, such that the total reconstruction error is minimized.

And, adding dither signal before quantization helps us to accomplish the above, i.e., lowering tonal quality degradation, for a more pleasing image.

(2) The dither signal does not always have to be random. It can be deterministic under certain situations, and in those circumstances may actually be better than random dither.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 02:21:27 pm by joofa »
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Joofa
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ejmartin

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2008, 08:48:11 am »

Quote
Thanks, gentlemen, that's what I wanted to hear.

I register with satisfaction your arguments

1. for the greater bit depth even if the "excess" bits represent only noise,

2. again lossy compression of raw files.

Now we can move on and forget all formerly said nonsense about how harmless Nikon's lossy compression is.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206345\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You mean what you thought you heard because you wanted to hear it.  

What both joofa and I actually pointed out was that noise present before quantization masks posterization up to the level of the noise.  This is the basic argument why bit depth need not exceed DR (or locally, quantization step need not be substantially less than S/N ratio), which you continue to fail to grasp.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 08:52:39 am by ejmartin »
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emil

Nick-T

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #83 on: July 08, 2008, 07:10:03 pm »

Quote
Measured as the trade off between the output variance in intensity from the mean value of the output in a portion of the picture which was of constant intensity at the input averaged over all inputs, and the deviation of mean output from the input.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206339\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I must say this is the sort of thing that gets me excited about photography all over again

Nick-T
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TMARK

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2008, 08:04:42 pm »

When I read this:

"Measured as the trade off between the output variance in intensity from the mean value of the output in a portion of the picture which was of constant intensity at the input averaged over all inputs, and the deviation of mean output from the input."

It moved.  I mean IT.
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joofa

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2008, 10:22:25 pm »

Sorry guys. I shall tone down from next time. I think I got carried away with the excitement that engulfs a new member.  
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Joofa
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gss

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Does Higher Bit-depth Matter?
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2008, 10:39:36 pm »

Quote
...got carried away with the excitement that engulfs a new member...
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Definitely not going to touch this one.
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