Some Initial Thoughts On The Nikon D700

[BJL]

Like others above, I think that the answer to several questions above can be summarized as "economies of scale", to the great benefit of demanding DLSR users.

Nikon can substantially reduce the cost of its FX models by selling its current FX sensor in the greatest possible quantity, and one good way to do this is to offer the same sensor in several bodies with different price/performance mix. The same has been going on for years with Nikon (and Sony and Pentax) using the same sensor or slight variants in a wide range of products. Olympus and Panasonic do likewise, using roughly the same 10MP sensor in all current models.

In fact, Nikon has already achieved some advantage simply by the D3 covering in part the market for the two different sensors of the 1DMkIII and 1DsMkIII, resulting in D3 unit sales and revenue far greater than for either of Canon's high end models, and a very competitive price.


Likewise, Sony greatly improves economies of scale for all its best sensors by selling them through Nikon bodies as well as its own, with Nikon always producing the great majority of these Sony sensors' sales volume.

This is all a lot like selling high quality film to users of cameras at very different price ranges, and the closest we are likely to get to "mix and match" in DSLR sensor/body combinations.


I guess that Canon will soon have to do something to substantially increase the sales volume of its best sensors, like offering a single high end body with both high resolution and high frame rate, or sharing the 1DsMkIII sensor with a less expensive, lower spec. body, D3/D700 style: code name "EOS-3D".

Soon there might be little room for SLR sensors selling less than 10,000/mo, which is also bad news for Fujifilm and Sigma/Foveon DSLRs.

[BernardLanguillier]

I guess that Canon will soon have to do something to substantially increase the sales volume of its best sensors, like offering a single high end body with both high resolution and high frame rate, or sharing the 1DsMkIII sensor with a less expensive, lower spec. body, D3/D700 style: code name "EOS-3D".

Soon there might be little room for SLR sensors selling less than 10,000/mo, which is also bad news for Fujifilm and Sigma/Foveon DSLRs.
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As an engineer working with many large customers in different fields on similar topics I am frankly amazed by the apparent lack of commonalization done by Canon.

There must be a rationale to that, but it I just cannot figure it out from the outside. It seems all incredibly unefficient (and I am weighting my words here).

Cheers,
Bernard

[dturina]

As an engineer working with many large customers in different fields on similar topics I am frankly amazed by the apparent lack of commonalization done by Canon.

There must be a rationale to that, but it I just cannot figure it out from the outside. It seems all incredibly unefficient (and I am weighting my words here).

Cheers,
Bernard
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I would venture a guess that they had such extreme margins on their 1Ds series for years, that they didn't dare to jeopardize them. If people think the high end product is somehow special and exotic they are likely to pay the premium. It's known in the car industry - when they tried to cut costs by putting same parts across the range (for instance Golf parts in a Porsche) the result was a disaster. Nobody will buy a Porsche if they think it's just a hugely overpriced Volkswagen.

[BernardLanguillier]

It's known in the car industry - when they tried to cut costs by putting same parts across the range (for instance Golf parts in a Porsche) the result was a disaster. Nobody will buy a Porsche if they think it's just a hugely overpriced Volkswagen.
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True for interior parts like dashboard items. But nobody will have a clue whether an airconditonning controller or suspension part is common...

Besides I was not only commenting on Canon's high end bodies. They also don't appear to be commonalizing too much with lower end bodies.

Cheers,
Bernard

[aaykay]

P.P.S. Thom's actual words: "I'm going to go a different direction: no D3x. Yes, a 24mp FX body, but it'll be the D900. This allows them to use the Sony sensor and bring it downscale to compete with the A900/5DII." Thom Hogan, speculating on Nikon's upcoming high MP offering.
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My take is as follows.  Sony and Nikon are tag-teaming to bring Canon down. The first salvo (after the D3) was the D700 in a 5D/D300 sized body, with a reasonable 12MP FF (relatively low pixel density for a FF).

The next salvo will be Sony coming out with their A900, with the 24.6MP FF chip, in a "non-pro" body, sized similar to the D700.  Due to its high pixel density,  and the characteristics that come with it, this will not be a direct competitor to the D700.  It will probably have an "APS-C crop mode",  which essentially allows it to shoot at 10.7MP APS-C mode and at 25MP at full resolution.

The salvo after that, will be the Nikon D3X, with the same 24.6MP Sony FF chip, which, due to its higher price and body positioning, will not directly threaten the Sony A900 (thus allowing Sony to establish itself, while being able to provide an alternative to the 1DSIII, to Nikon).  Sony at this stage in the game, is not interested in the 1DS market or even positioned to target such lofty levels.

Around a year (or at least 6 months later), Sony will come out with a lower MP FF (14MP Sony chip) which will compete with the D700 (and Canon 5DII), and around the same time, Nikon will put the D3X high pixel density Sony chip, in a "D900".

Please note that Sony, unlike a traditional camera-maker like Nikon (and to a lesser extent Canon), can introduce a "digital"-SLR, at much better pricing (or margins), since every single component in the D-SLR, are made by various divisions of Sony, including the image sensors, the LCDs, the batteries, the other electronic sensors, the firmware/software, the data pipeline, the processors etc and further downstream, Sony will leverage those price/cost advantages to target Nikon, after establishing themselves as a credible player, over the next couple of years.  They will be introducing ultra-high-end lenses over the next couple of months, including Carl Zeiss Full-frame lenses, and also high-end flashes, thus truly positioning themselves as a 3rd alternative to the (current) major players.