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Author Topic: New Sinar arTec camera  (Read 169054 times)

Natasa Stojsic

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New Sinar arTec camera
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2008, 01:42:25 am »

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I suspect 3rd party companies like KaptureGroup will make a back adapter as soon as they can get their hands on one of these cameras 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204690\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Why 3rd party? Considering Sinar and their track record they will probably do it, only don't ask me about the price!!!

They usually have every little thing that yuo can think of on the accessories list so why not?

On the other hand, they are not known as Business Wizards... so maybe it will only be available for Sinar DBs, but that's a shame:(
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thsinar

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« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2008, 01:51:02 am »

Dear John,

Of course someone involved in the development and construction of a camera has his preference, but is it necessarily and always biased by means of "unfairness" to or "dislikes" of others?

I let you judge on this.

What I can say is that it was and still is a pleasure to work with such a professional like Rainer, somebody going straight to the point and raising issues which a manufacturer is not even able to think about, letting apart finding a solution. I can speak about since involved and informed somehow on a regular basis, and I know that the whole and sole idea during all this process was to build and come out with a camera for photographers.  In this respect, the result is a product with as little compromises as possible. What surprises me is how easy and smooth and how fast all went during  this work and cooperation.

Now please forgive me for not being able to participate much and continue answering questions here for the next few days. We have a second day going on here in Switzerland, and starting next Thursday the same will be presented in Asia to our far-east distributors.

Best regards,
Thierry

Best regards,
Thierry

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Don't take this the wrong way, but do you think someone associated with the camera can write a bias review? It defiantly looks like a very nice camera, but the reality when you already own a Cambo Wide DS system seems like a costly jump. My ownly hope is for cambo to see what can be done.

The most interest news is the schneider 23mm lens with a 70 mm image circle. I hope this is made available to Cambo for the Wide DS.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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MarkKay

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New Sinar arTec camera
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2008, 02:02:03 am »

I only said this because Thierry stated no plans for Sinar to make adapters for other DBs....

Quote
Why 3rd party? Considering Sinar and their track record they will probably do it, only don't ask me about the price!!!

They usually have every little thing that yuo can think of on the accessories list so why not?

On the other hand, they are not known as Business Wizards... so maybe it will only be available for Sinar DBs, but that's a shame:(
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free1000

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New Sinar arTec camera
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2008, 02:28:12 am »

Rainer... well done to specify something like this,  and top marks to Sinar for listening to the photographers.

This looks like a ground breaking camera for the architectural shooter, and another plus for the Hy6/AFi platform.

I'd be interested to know its dimensions and weight, but it looks like it might be compact.
 
One question. Are the shift and tilt axes independently rotatable?  I expect that they are not, but it would be a nice bonus.
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rainer_v

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« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2008, 02:43:24 am »

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Don't take this the wrong way, but do you think someone associated with the camera can write a bias review? It defiantly looks like a very nice camera, but the reality when you already own a Cambo Wide DS system seems like a costly jump. My ownly hope is for cambo to see what can be done.

The most interest news is the schneider 23mm lens with a 70 mm image circle. I hope this is made available to Cambo for the Wide DS.
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no i dont take it the wrong way because you certainly are right.
i hardly can and want to write a "review" because i am too involved in ithe birth of the camera
( and because i dont like to write "reviews" ).

what i can do is to write about how i use the camera in practice and to describe how it works for me.  the technical details and the critics in terms of a real plus/minus review have to be made by s.o. else and therefor it has also to be waited for the final product.

the prototype is nice now, but not finished in all details.
some of the knobs will be changed, one arretating knob isnt working still, another one ( a very important one for tilts )  is not at its final level.
so its a prototype and its out now to bring final feedback to sinar what should be made different in the first serial, the camera is not at its final level.
although it works its not perfect yet so nobody can "review" it now at the moment.
but the missing things are details and so i am pretty confident that sinar can fix them fast.
there is a lot of knowledge by sinar for manufacturing mechanical cameras, i dont think any if the things which still dont work at final stage will be a problem in the first batch.

aanyway i dont know how products usually are reviewed in pre serial stages.
i will contact michael about this the next days ... he will know all about it.  

i arrived here in switzerland sunday night, coming from hot spain, stopping here in zurich. now i go back to munich , i have several work too shot next weeks. perfect to test the camera.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 02:52:21 am by rainer_v »
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rainer viertlböck
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BJNY

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New Sinar arTec camera
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2008, 06:18:59 am »

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A side view:
[attachment=7267:attachment]


Thierry,

How about a rear view, please, and...

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Is the 360º turnable tripod mount geared rotation, Thierry?

Also, is its rotation point lined up with the center axis of the lens?
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Guillermo

thsinar

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« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2008, 06:50:34 am »

Some other views and snapshots:

Thierry

[attachment=7268:attachment][attachment=7269:attachment][attachment=7270:attachm
ent][attachment=7271:attachment]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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BJNY

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« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2008, 06:53:01 am »

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Some other views and snapshots:

Thierry

Much appreciated,Thierry.
Billy
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Guillermo

Kumar

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« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2008, 07:27:31 am »

Thierry,

Very sleek! I don't see any vertical scales? I think mm scales, not just half-centimetre. What is the knob in front for?

Cheers,
Kumar
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BJNY

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« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2008, 07:40:55 am »

I'm not an engineer,
but am I wrong to think the center of the ground glass
and the rotation point of the tripod mount
should be lined up?

[attachment=7272:attachment]

I can imagine the reason why they're not is
for the tripod mount to have a better distribution of bulk.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 07:59:50 am by BJNY »
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Guillermo

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« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2008, 08:34:12 am »

It's still unclear to me if/how the camera allows simultaneous tilt and swing,
and simultaneous shift V and shift H.

Is it obvious to everyone else?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 09:26:26 am by BJNY »
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Guillermo

rainer_v

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« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2008, 09:45:24 am »

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It's still unclear to me if the camera allows simultaneous tilt and swing,
and simultaneous shift V and shift H.

Is it obvious to everyone else?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204748\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
hm. i dont know to explain it better than i did. maybe someone who understood can explain it better or is it unclear to more people here?

....................



about the nodal point which is not under the lens:
its at first a question of the weigth balance, if you dont want to need a very heavy tripoid the tripoid mount  this weigth center should be the central point wher you go to the tripoid.

the 360degree plate in the tripod came in the camera, because we discussed to include this as a little detail, after i brought my tripod to sinar and explained whi i use this strange manfrotto leveller.
i shoot  usually with this leveler to get  a horizontal platform under the three way head, or under which head i ever use. in this way i can turn round the camera meanwhile i compose and adjust the image without that the horizontal position gets lost.
 to integrate this rotary possibility in the camera mount itself means that, one time you have the camera horizintal adjusted e.g. with a three way head, you can turn it around its axe and you dont have to adjust the horizont again. this should be a very practical detail.

of course one can use this feature also for "real" stitched roundshots, but it was not my intention when i asked for this feature
i.m.o. a sliding back camera can never be a perfect roundshot camera platform and it will not be used often for this purpose, but you are right,- smetimes it will be used therefor.
 anyway, the uncentered nodal point  shouldnt create any problem at infinity or even at closer distances. and PS3 became so fantastic in stitching this kind of shots, i would be surprised if there will appear problems.  
but the alterantive, an uncentered stativ mount leads to large weigth unbalances if you compose the image, so this seems to be for me unacceptable  for this reason.
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rainer viertlböck
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juicy

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« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2008, 09:46:53 am »

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It's still unclear to me if/how the camera allows simultaneous tilt and swing,
and simultaneous shift V and shift H.

Is it obvious to everyone else?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204748\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If I understood correctly the tilt and swing are not possible at the same time as separate functions. However, you can achieve the same effect by rotating the tilted lens and thus having the combined effect of tilt and swing.

Cheers,
J
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MHFA

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« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2008, 10:00:39 am »

Finally it seems that comes a digital camera for architectural work. The backs a as good as film, but all the cameras until now are only nearlly as good as the film based architectural cameras.
I was at ALPA and Linhof factory and tried their cameras, but there was no really good solution in Sight.
The ALPA is a great camera, but ther is no tilt and always changing groundglass and sensor is not comfortabel.
I hope I can try the new SINAR.

Michael Heinrich
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thsinar

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« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2008, 10:16:19 am »

Exactly.

Thierry

Quote
If I understood correctly the tilt and swing are not possible at the same time as separate functions. However, you can achieve the same effect by rotating the tilted lens and thus having the combined effect of tilt and swing.

Cheers,
J
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Thierry Hagenauer
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BJNY

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« Reply #75 on: July 01, 2008, 10:24:58 am »

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If I understood correctly the tilt and swing are not possible at the same time as separate functions. However, you can achieve the same effect by rotating the tilted lens and thus having the combined effect of tilt and swing.

Cheers,
J

I'm not usually dense.
Maybe an exploded view of the separate components of the arTec would help.

I don't see where the entire front would detach allowing for the tilt knob to be at the bottom allowing for swing.

And, how does the lens rise to exclude the foreground.  I don't see the vertical scales.
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Guillermo

adammork

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« Reply #76 on: July 01, 2008, 10:35:39 am »

Quote from: rainer_v,Jul 1 2008, 01:45 PM

about the nodal point which is not under the lens:
its at first a question of the weigth balance, if you dont want to need a very heavy tripoid the tripoid mount  this weigth center should be the central point wher you go to the tripoid.

Dear Rainer,

First a big congratulation with your new camera!! looks that your dream came true  

please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that when the back is behind the lens, ready for exposure, all the weight from the groundglass, viewer and back is on one side of the camera, at the time where you need the most stabile and even weight distribution.

Hope you are doing well  

KR Adam
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Mort54

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« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2008, 10:52:21 am »

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Mort,

at this stage only Sinar eMotion and Leaf AFi backs are supported. I can't speculate further.
Hi Thierry. Thank you for the quick response.

After examining the photos that show the back side of the arTec, I take heart. It looks, to me at least, that the MFDB interface is a screw on plate (the bumps in the four corners look like screw heads to me, at least). If the MFDB interface can be removed, then I have no doubt that a third party can provide plates for other MFDB mounts. Since this is a technical camera, the proprietary electronic interface of the Hy-6 isn't needed - only mechanical adapters are needed.

I would be interested in hearing back from you as to whether my assumption that the MFDB interface is implemented as a removable plate is correct.

Regards,
Mort.
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ericstaud

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« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2008, 10:53:23 am »

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Finally it seems that comes a digital camera for architectural work. The backs a as good as film, but all the cameras until now are only nearlly as good as the film based architectural cameras.
I was at ALPA and Linhof factory and tried their cameras, but there was no really good solution in Sight.
The ALPA is a great camera, but ther is no tilt and always changing groundglass and sensor is not comfortabel.
I hope I can try the new SINAR.

Michael Heinrich
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204760\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is interesting that so many find a ground glass a necessity for photographing architecture.  I find that between the view on the Phase LCD and the screen on my laptop that I don't miss using a groundglass at all.  I feel the same about the tilts and swings.  If I am shooting food or still life I would need it, but then I would use a different camera entirely.

I can certainly see that a demo of one of these technical cameras can make it seem cumbersome if you have preconceptions about how it should work (swapping a ground glass and digital back for every shot).  I would say try going without the tilts and a goundglass for six months and then see on how many shots you really miss those "features".

Also, no Digitars??  I would hope not.  I decided against the HR's after seeing the compromise in design.  They are retrofocal lenses with a good amount of pincushion distortion.  The number one reason I spent so much money on a technical camera was to get away from retrofocal lenses.
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BJNY

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« Reply #79 on: July 01, 2008, 11:01:08 am »

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After examining the photos that show the back side of the arTec, I take heart. It looks, to me at least, that the MFDB interface is a screw on plate (the bumps in the four corners look like screw heads to me, at least).

No,
that's where the four pins from the Hy6/AFi digital back insert into.

See, the rear of the Hy6 has the same female connector.
 [attachment=7273:attachment]
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 11:14:57 am by BJNY »
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