The PhaseOne/Mamiya AFDIII review

[Snook]

I've lurked here a long time - as I someday hope to own a medium format system - for now I make do with what I have and learn what I can. With a little internet searching you can find list pricing info.

Phaseone System USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
Mamiya 645 35mm Lens -   $1379
Mamiya 645 45mm Lens -   $1099
Mamiya 645 55mm Lens -   $989
Mamiya 645 80mm Lens (included w/ camera)   n/a
Mamiya 645 150mm Lens -   $1189
Total for Lenses -   $4656
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty -   $22490
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty -   $26990
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty - with lenses -   $27146
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty - with lenses -   $31646
   
Leaf System USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
40mm (couldn't find pricing)   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $15170
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with Waist Level Finder and Aptus 65S Digital Back (doesn't spec warrenty length) -   $25995
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with lenses -   $41165
   
Sinar System USA List Pricing   
Sources: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ and http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386   
40mm (couldn't find pricing)   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $15170
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty -   $30500
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - with lenses -   $45670
   
Hasselblad Sysyem USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
35mm -   $3440
50mm -   $3155
80mm (included with camera)   n/a
150mm -   $3100
Total for Lenses -   $9695
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with 80mm Lens (doesn't spec warrenty length) - (pricing reflects a current promotional discount of $9000) -   $17995
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with lenses -   $27690
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Those Mamiya Lens are going to be the same if not a lot more than the other guys lens for sure..
Too some it may not matter but the price package will go up when the new lens will be out.
That is the Total package price with the newer "D" lens and "Leafshutter"lens that they have mentioned.
Maybe be better to put the new 28mm lens from mamiya which is quite spendy instead of the older style Lens 35mm?
Snook

[hdomke]

Thanks Michael, I enjoyed reading your review
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204435\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I also enjoyed the review, just as I have enjoyed much of what Michael has had to say for the last several years. However, the last few years he has become much less technical in his reviews. This certainly is easier for him and it still gives his readers a sense of his experience, but at times I find it frustrating.

For example, in this particular review of the Phase One 645 Camera in the third from the last paragraph he writes a provocative statement:
"...large studio centers who switched from medium format to DSLRs a while back are now switching to MF digital again, simply because of the superior image quality which it can produce. It's not just about megapixels, because in many cases these studios are producing images that will never end up being larger than a catalog or magazine page in size. It's about image quality, pure and simple."

If the image quality is better, it should be measurably better. But no measurements are mentioned. I really question if this is (as he says) "pure and simple."

In fact, it seems from reading these forums that the issue is anything but simple and there are many who have different opinions about the merits of MF digital backs compared to 35 DSLRs.

Maybe instead of calling this a "Review" he should call it an "Impression"

[James R Russell]

I've lurked here a long time - as I someday hope to own a medium format system - for now I make do with what I have and learn what I can. With a little internet searching you can find list pricing info.

Phaseone System USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
Mamiya 645 35mm Lens -   $1379
Mamiya 645 45mm Lens -   $1099
Mamiya 645 55mm Lens -   $989
Mamiya 645 80mm Lens (included w/ camera)   n/a
Mamiya 645 150mm Lens -   $1189
Total for Lenses -   $4656
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty -   $22490
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty -   $26990
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty - with lenses -   $27146
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty - with lenses -   $31646
   
Leaf System USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
40mm (couldn't find pricing)   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $15170
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with Waist Level Finder and Aptus 65S Digital Back (doesn't spec warrenty length) -   $25995
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with lenses -   $41165
   
Sinar System USA List Pricing   
Sources: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ and http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386   
40mm (couldn't find pricing)   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $15170
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty -   $30500
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - with lenses -   $45670
   
Hasselblad Sysyem USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
35mm -   $3440
50mm -   $3155
80mm (included with camera)   n/a
150mm -   $3100
Total for Lenses -   $9695
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with 80mm Lens (doesn't spec warrenty length) - (pricing reflects a current promotional discount of $9000) -   $17995
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with lenses -   $27690
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Neil,

Thank you for doing this.

If this was a standalone thread or blog titled all medium format price comparisions, it probably would be linked to 400 blogs, because this is the first time I've seen any of these prices compared almost apples-to-apples.

Yes with the new Mamiya lenses the prices probably will go up, and/or I sure some people will have issue that the Mamiya doesn't have a range of leaf shutter lenses compared to the Hy6 and the Hasselblad, but neither of those go to 4000th of a second shutter so what might be a deal breaker for some, is a positive for another photographer.  

Same with the ability to put on different lenses of different makes, or even used legacy lenses.

Still, I was just thinking of the guy/girl that walks into a store and says I need a wide angle, a semi wide, a normal and a medium telephoto.  How much?

What most surprises me is how quiet the dealers and reps have been on this.  I would have thought they'd been all over this , especially about the software.

I get e-mails all the time about what camera to buy and usually it's from people coming from a Canon that want to improve their image quality, (wahtever that means) and so much of the conversation really comes down to price dependent, and for professionals workflow, reliability and speed of repairs.

I would really love to see this expanded to software, release dates, processing times, compatibility with other 3rd part software and which I think is very important what computers these softwares run best on, or even require to run at all.

Anyway, thank you.

JR

[paul_jones]

I've lurked here a long time - as I someday hope to own a medium format system - for now I make do with what I have and learn what I can. With a little internet searching you can find list pricing info.

Phaseone System USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
Mamiya 645 35mm Lens -   $1379
Mamiya 645 45mm Lens -   $1099
Mamiya 645 55mm Lens -   $989
Mamiya 645 80mm Lens (included w/ camera)   n/a
Mamiya 645 150mm Lens -   $1189
Total for Lenses -   $4656
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty -   $22490
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty -   $26990
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty - with lenses -   $27146
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty - with lenses -   $31646
   
Leaf System USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
40mm (couldn't find pricing)   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $15170
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with Waist Level Finder and Aptus 65S Digital Back (doesn't spec warrenty length) -   $25995
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with lenses -   $41165
   
Sinar System USA List Pricing   
Sources: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ and http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386   
40mm (couldn't find pricing)   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $15170
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty -   $30500
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - with lenses -   $45670
   
Hasselblad Sysyem USA List Pricing   
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/   
35mm -   $3440
50mm -   $3155
80mm (included with camera)   n/a
150mm -   $3100
Total for Lenses -   $9695
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with 80mm Lens (doesn't spec warrenty length) - (pricing reflects a current promotional discount of $9000) -   $17995
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with lenses -   $27690
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

here is the rollei 40mm you are missing (i think- im not a rollei expert)-
[a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/44334-USA/Rollei_66119_40mm_f_3_5_Super_Angulon.html]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4433...er_Angulon.html[/url]

$5549 usd

paul

[pprdigital]

Neil,

Thank you for doing this.

If this was a standalone thread or blog titled all medium format price comparisions, it probably would be linked to 400 blogs, because this is the first time I've seen any of these prices compared almost apples-to-apples.

Yes with the new Mamiya lenses the prices probably will go up, and/or I sure some people will have issue that the Mamiya doesn't have a range of leaf shutter lenses compared to the Hy6 and the Hasselblad, but neither of those go to 4000th of a second shutter so what might be a deal breaker for some, is a positive for another photographer. 

Same with the ability to put on different lenses of different makes, or even used legacy lenses.

Still, I was just thinking of the guy/girl that walks into a store and says I need a wide angle, a semi wide, a normal and a medium telephoto.  How much?

What most surprises me is how quiet the dealers and reps have been on this.  I would have thought they'd been all over this , especially about the software.

I get e-mails all the time about what camera to buy and usually it's from people coming from a Canon that want to improve their image quality, (wahtever that means) and so much of the conversation really comes down to price dependent, and for professionals workflow, reliability and speed of repairs.

I would really love to see this expanded to software, release dates, processing times, compatibility with other 3rd part software and which I think is very important what computers these softwares run best on, or even require to run at all.

Anyway, thank you.

JR
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, I am not really ready for prime time, but I have been working on a PPR Digital website for a while now (in my spare time, which gives you an idea of how much time I have), and it is still unfinished in terms of design elements, etc, but the rough sketch is mostly agreed upon. It will be accessible through PPR's main site when it is completed.

While I have always provided a website link, I've never been happy about the link I was leaving, and so that is why I have taken matters into my own hands. My hope is to have many aspects of medium/large format digital presented in an informational manner. There will be a technical support page, software download page, up to date read-me's, etc.

For now, the pricing content is mostly complete. The links at the top are active for Leaf, Hasselblad and Sinar, but none of the other links are active. And please remember, this is a very rough sketch of an incomplete product.

[a href=\"http://web.mac.com/hendrixppr/PPR_Digital_Pricing/Hasselblad_Pricing.html]http://web.mac.com/hendrixppr/PPR_Digital_...ad_Pricing.html[/url]

Steve Hendrix/PPR
Dealer

[thsinar]

Recommended list price for the Sinar Hy6-eMotion 54 LV is US$ 28'130.-

Total recommended prices with new Schneider AFD lenses (50/80/180) and Schneider super-Angulon 3.5/40mm HFT-PQ is US$ 49'825.-, as per June 01st '08.

And as per July 01st '08, the new recommended list price of this same Sinar Hy6 - eMotion 54LV is US$ 22'550.-

The package with the same above lenses being thus US$ 44'245.- (3-Year Warranty).

Remark: the Dalsa 22 MPx sensor can't be compared with a 31 MPx or 28 MPx sensor, neither from the price nor from the limitations.

Best regards,
Thierry

Sinar System USA List Pricing   
Sources: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ , <a href='http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386' target='_blank'>http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386</a> and http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4433...er_Angulon.html
40mm - $5549   
50mm -   $5150
80mm -   $3100
180mm -   $6920
Total for Lenses -   $20719
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty -   $30500
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - with lenses -   $51219

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pprdigital]

Recommended list price for the Sinar Hy6-eMotion 54 LV is US$ 28'130.-

Total recommended prices with new Schneider AFD lenses (50/80/180) and Schneider super-Angulon 3.5/40mm HFT-PQ is US$ 49'825.-, as per June 01st '08.

And as per July 01st '08, the new recommended list price of this same Sinar Hy6 - eMotion 54LV is US$ 22'550.-

The package with the same above lenses being thus US$ 44'245.- (3-Year Warranty).

Remark: the Dalsa 22 MPx sensor can't be compared with a 31 MPx or 28 MPx sensor, neither from the price nor from the limitations.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205243\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry:

US dealers have not received any type of pricing information yet that reflect the changes you've detailed. Is the $22,550 price for the 54LV, not the LVr? In other words is this price for the non-revolving kit or the revolving package?

Thanks,
Steve Hendrix/PPR Dealer
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[thsinar]

hi Steve,

Yes, I can imagine that you did not yet receive these new prices: the information has been given to our distributors 3 days ago.

The price indicated is for the Sinar Hy6 - eMotion 54LV ---> non-revolving

The Sinar Hy6 - eMotion 54LVr recommended price has been dropped as well, as per July 01st = US$ 23,900.-

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry:

US dealers have not received any type of pricing information yet that reflect the changes you've detailed. Is the $22,550 price for the 54LV, not the LVr? In other words is this price for the non-revolving kit or the revolving package?

Thanks,
Steve Hendrix/PPR Dealer
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205245\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[James R Russell]

Remark: the Dalsa 22 MPx sensor can't be compared with a 31 MPx or 28 MPx sensor, neither from the price nor from the limitations.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205243\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry,

When I made that list I just wanted to see a comparision of the middle of the range backs and cameras, not the very top end.

I thought a comparision with the top end backs pricing would be too scary.

From a sinar standpoint it's almost impossible to compare exactly with the other makes,  because you guys offer less variety in sensor sizes than the rest of the makers.

Your right about the 22mp dalsa chip, it's different than the 31mpx kodak and I've owned both.

For the nice look of the dalsa, which can be very nice under certain conditions, and the size which helps with certain lenses, it also has it's limitations, iso being one of them.

JR

[eronald]

A really nice idea would be a chip with the same pixel density as the Dalsa, but with the ISO the current tech allows. Should be much better than the P30+.

Edmund

Thierry,

For the nice look of the dalsa, which can be very nice under certain conditions, and the size which helps with certain lenses, it also has it's limitations, iso being one of them.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[hubell]

Neil,

Thank you for doing this.

I would really love to see this expanded to software, release dates, processing times, compatibility with other 3rd part software and which I think is very important what computers these softwares run best on, or even require to run at all.

Anyway, thank you.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205077\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James: I believe that there is another extremely important "feature" of these packages  that should  be included in any comparison, and that is the actual terms oft he warranties. What is included in the "basic" one year warranty? In particular, is it a "hot swap" warranty that provides for a 24 hour guaranteed loaner if your back goes down? How about the extended three year warranty?
I personally would not buy a back without an extended hot swap warranty. I was also favorably disposed to an H3D because both the camera and the back are Hasselblad. If there is a problem, nobody points a finger and says it's the other guy's problem. You call your Hasselblad dealer and, at least if its Steve Hendrix, you get a loaner from Hasselblad with next day delivery. For you, as a professional, a second back and body can be justified, and may be a necessity. Very difficult for most of us to afford it or be able to justify.

[Guy Mancuso]

Here is the difference for Phase backs


Classic 1-Year Warranty or Value-Added 3-Year Warranty?
Phase One offers two types of warranties on its digital backs. The Classic 1-Year Warranty provides parts/service coverage for 1 year. The Value-Added 3-Year Warranty extends this warranty an additional two years, and adds extra accessories, and a replacement-unit program.

Classic Warranty Kit
1-Year Repair Only International Warranty
Black Pelican Case
Capture One DB
Single-Bay battery charger
One 2500 mAh battery
Viewfinder masks (5 pcs)
4.5m Firewire Cable
DigiClean kit
Value Added Warranty Kit
3-Year Replacement Loaner International Warranty
3-Year Free Platform Swap Guarantee
Metallic Case
Capture One Pro
Dual-Bay battery charger
Two 2500 mAh batteries
Viewfinder masks (5 pcs)
4.5m Firewire Cable
DigiClean kit
SanDisk 2-gig Extreme IV CF card
SanDisk Firewire 800 card reader
Multiconnector sync cable
Multiconnector > Minijack adapter cable
Manual hard-copy
LCC calibration kit
5 pcs QP greycard
Microfiber cloth

[Guy Mancuso]

Some of this has changed slightly like the case for instance with the New Phase One body is a lot nicer. So please double check with your dealers just to make sure you have all the right updates

[Graham Mitchell]

Seems strange to choose the 28MP sensor for this comparison, when Sinar doesn't have one. The larger 22MP is more expensive. As all of the manufacturers offer a 22MP back, why not compare this?

[James R Russell]

James: I believe that there is another extremely important "feature" of these packages  that should  be included in any comparison, and that is the actual terms oft he warranties. What is included in the "basic" one year warranty? In particular, is it a "hot swap" warranty that provides for a 24 hour guaranteed loaner if your back goes down? How about the extended three year warranty?
I personally would not buy a back without an extended hot swap warranty. I was also favorably disposed to an H3D because both the camera and the back are Hasselblad. If there is a problem, nobody points a finger and says it's the other guy's problem. You call your Hasselblad dealer and, at least if its Steve Hendrix, you get a loaner from Hasselblad with next day delivery. For you, as a professional, a second back and body can be justified, and may be a necessity. Very difficult for most of us to afford it or be able to justify.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205310\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess this depends on where you are and what you do.

For me, 24 hours might as well be 24 years.

For some, maybe it comes in handy, though I wonder if those loaners are available in all mounts.

Do they have a contax, bronica, mamiya, H, V, HY6 (oops sorry, nobody has that), or every other mount available?

For Hasselblad brand H3 series cameras, lenses and accessories  the loaner should be easy because as far as they are concerned I guess there really is only one camera mount to worry about.

JR

[James R Russell]

Seems strange to choose the 28MP sensor for this comparison, when Sinar doesn't have one. The larger 22MP is more expensive. As all of the manufacturers offer a 22MP back, why not compare this?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No it doesn't.

I listed out the newest in relationship to the lowest price that 3 of the 4 db makers have, mainly because as mentioned by a lot of the dealers, given the choice of a 400 iso 22mpx sensor or a 800 iso 31/28 mpx sensor the larger pixel count sensor is the choice.

Also the 22 mpx sensors from Kodak and Dalsa are some of the older technology, I was thinking that the person that is coming from a 1ds3 probably wouldn't drop another  24k to 45k on a new medium format system for just a 1 mpx increase.

There was no plan to penalize Sinar, but if you wish, modify that list and put in 22mpx sensors with all the lenses and bodies from the 4 db makers and see where they fall.

Neil took the time, now it's your turn.  All your going to see is another 2 to 3 thousand dollar increase across the board.

___________________________

From Neil's research;

Phaseone System USA List Pricing
Source: [a href=\"http://www.calumetphoto.com/]http://www.calumetphoto.com/[/url]
Mamiya 645 35mm Lens - $1379
Mamiya 645 45mm Lens - $1099
Mamiya 645 55mm Lens - $989
Mamiya 645 80mm Lens (included w/ camera) n/a
Mamiya 645 150mm Lens - $1189
Total for Lenses - $4656
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty - $22490
Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty - $26990
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 1 year warranty - with lenses - $27146
Total for Phase P30+, Phaseone 645 body - 3 year warranty - with lenses - $31646

Leaf System USA List Pricing
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/
40mm (couldn't find pricing)
50mm - $5150
80mm - $3100
180mm - $6920
Total for Lenses - $15170
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with Waist Level Finder and Aptus 65S Digital Back (doesn't spec warrenty length) - $25995
Leaf AFi 6 Camera Kit with lenses - $41165

Sinar System USA List Pricing
Sources: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ and http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386
40mm (couldn't find pricing)
50mm - $5150
80mm - $3100
180mm - $6920
Total for Lenses - $15170
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - $30500
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - with lenses - $45670

Hasselblad Sysyem USA List Pricing
Source: http://www.calumetphoto.com/
35mm - $3440
50mm - $3155
80mm (included with camera) n/a
150mm - $3100
Total for Lenses - $9695
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with 80mm Lens (doesn't spec warrenty length) - (pricing reflects a current promotional discount of $9000) - $17995
Hasselblad Hasselblad H3DII-31 with lenses - $27690

JR

[thsinar]

We agree, James.

Thanks,
Thierry

Thierry,

When I made that list I just wanted to see a comparision of the middle of the range backs and cameras, not the very top end.

I thought a comparision with the top end backs pricing would be too scary.

From a sinar standpoint it's almost impossible to compare exactly with the other makes,  because you guys offer less variety in sensor sizes than the rest of the makers.

Your right about the 22mp dalsa chip, it's different than the 31mpx kodak and I've owned both.

For the nice look of the dalsa, which can be very nice under certain conditions, and the size which helps with certain lenses, it also has it's limitations, iso being one of them.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Are you that sure, James, nobody?

That's simply not true.

Best regards,
Thierry

... HY6 (oops sorry, nobody has that) ...

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205381\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[James R Russell]

Are you that sure, James, nobody!

That's simply not true.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205497\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That was a joke, but on the web, it's hard to have humor.

I guess I should have said as customer we have three grades of open platforms, open, semi open, closed.

Kind of sounds like a cable package.

(that is also a joke).

As far as the iso of a 22mpx dalsa compared to the 31mpx Kodak chips there is a full stop differnce at least in the thousands of  images I have shot at those iso's with those backs.

JR

P.S. Theirry, I have a question you can probably answer.   How has the open, semi open, closed thing worked out for medium format?  Is Hasselblad selling like crazy, have Sinar sales improved dramatically, is Leaf busting out HY6's all over the world.  Really, I'm curious if this has pushed sales up, or kept people away.  Are all the makers selling more backs for their proprietary cameras or are they still selling for the V's , Contax's and older H's?  Does anyone publish sales numbers?

[thsinar]

James,

that may certainly be the case for some (may be a lot), but also certainly not for all. There are many others working in different fields and not needing/wishing the advantages of a 28/30 MPx sensor but rather the advantages of a 22 MPx sensor.

I listed out the newest in relationship to the lowest price that 3 of the 4 db makers have, mainly because as mentioned by a lot of the dealers, given the choice of a 400 iso 22mpx sensor or a 800 iso 31/28 mpx sensor the larger pixel count sensor is the choice.
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I am pretty sure you didn't. But a fair (by means of the same type of sensor/pixel count) comparison would be nice to have, for the record. I have given the new prices (as per July 01st '08), with lenses, for our eMotion 54 LV 22 MPx and the standard 3-year Sinar warranty.

There was no plan to penalize Sinar, but if you wish, modify that list and put in 22mpx sensors with all the lenses and bodies from the 4 db makers and see where they fall.
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As mentioned in my earlier post above, as per July 01st '08, the new recommended list price of this same Sinar Hy6 - eMotion 54LV with standard 3-Year warranty is US$ 22'550.- (not US$ 30'500.-)

The package with the same above lenses being thus US$ 44'245.- with 3-Year Warranty, and DOES INCLUDE the below mentioned 40mm lens (not US$ 45'670.- and without the 40mm).

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Sinar System USA List Pricing
Sources: [a href=\"http://www.calumetphoto.com/]http://www.calumetphoto.com/[/url] and http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/prodtech/news...t_id=1003584386
40mm (couldn't find pricing)
50mm - $5150
80mm - $3100
180mm - $6920
Total for Lenses - $15170
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - $30500
Sinar Hy6/Sinarback emotion 54LV - 3 year warrenty - with lenses - $45670

JR
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