Topic: 1DS3 and Flash Control (Read 9377 times)

dwdallam · « **on:** June 28, 2008, 05:05:29 am »

Has anyone used the 1DS3 to control off camera flash? If so, have you figured out what the real differences are between controlling the off camera flash with the 1DS3 compared to the STE-2 remote?

Thanks

Geoff Wittig · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2008, 08:12:14 am »

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Has anyone used the 1DS3 to control off camera flash? If so, have you figured out what the real differences are between controlling the off camera flash with the 1DS3 compared to the STE-2 remote?

Thanks
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As far as I know, the only way to control an off-camera flash is by using the STE-2 remote, using a hot-shoe mounted flash unit to control the off-camera flash, or use a cable to the off-camera flash. The Eos-1Ds IIII doesn't have any built-in provision to control off-camera flash that I am aware of. It does permit you to use the camera's menu system to select the wireless settings on the flash unit mounted on the hot-shoe.

dwdallam · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2008, 08:23:42 am »

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As far as I know, the only way to control an off-camera flash is by using the STE-2 remote, using a hot-shoe mounted flash unit to control the off-camera flash, or use a cable to the off-camera flash. The Eos-1Ds IIII doesn't have any built-in provision to control off-camera flash that I am aware of. It does permit you to use the camera's menu system to select the wireless settings on the flash unit mounted on the hot-shoe.
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You mean you can control the flash w/o touching the flash, but that's the extent of it? Why even bother?

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2008, 12:52:38 pm »

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As far as I know, the only way to control an off-camera flash is by using the STE-2 remote, using a hot-shoe mounted flash unit to control the off-camera flash, or use a cable to the off-camera flash. The Eos-1Ds IIII doesn't have any built-in provision to control off-camera flash that I am aware of.

The 550EX and 580EX flashes are capable of acting as masters as well as the STE-2. Canon flashes communicate by pulsing the flash tube, so giving the 1Ds-III direct flash control capability would require installing a built-in flash into the 1Ds-III. As to the usefulness of the Canon wireless flash control system, you can have 3 groups of flashes, each of which can have its power level adjusted independently from the master unit (ST-E2, 550EX, or 580EX). The biggest drawback is limited range, (10-15 feet) especially outdoors where light levels tend to be higher, and there are fewer surfaces to reflect the signal from the master unit to the slave(s).

As to why you should bother with multiple off-camera flashes, simply ask yourself if on-camera flash is the ideal lighting fore every situation...

Geoff Wittig · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2008, 04:38:38 pm »

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You mean you can control the flash w/o touching the flash, but that's the extent of it? Why even bother?
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This permits you to set the flash parameters and groups from the fairly logical menu and large LCD of the Eos-1Ds III. Otherwise you have to use the smaller LCD and quirky menu structure of the individual flash unit. And it's easier to remember one set of commands from the camera compared to different settings for each flash unit. (You can still find the manual for that 5 year old flash unit, can't you? Me neither.)

wolfnowl · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2008, 06:55:23 pm »

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As to why you should bother with multiple off-camera flashes, simply ask yourself if on-camera flash is the ideal lighting fore every situation...

This isn't my field at all, but from what I've read Joe McNally uses a lot of multiple off-camera flash work. You can see more on his website: http://www.joemcnally.com

also: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....topic=25613&hl=

FWIW,

Mike.

dwdallam · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:10:24 am »

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The 550EX and 580EX flashes are capable of acting as masters as well as the STE-2. Canon flashes communicate by pulsing the flash tube, so giving the 1Ds-III direct flash control capability would require installing a built-in flash into the 1Ds-III. As to the usefulness of the Canon wireless flash control system, you can have 3 groups of flashes, each of which can have its power level adjusted independently from the master unit (ST-E2, 550EX, or 580EX). The biggest drawback is limited range, (10-15 feet) especially outdoors where light levels tend to be higher, and there are fewer surfaces to reflect the signal from the master unit to the slave(s).

As to why you should bother with multiple off-camera flashes, simply ask yourself if on-camera flash is the ideal lighting fore every situation...
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No, I meant why bother with the 1DS3s in camera flash adjustment if you can only use it while the flash is on top of the camera itself, I mean it's only 3 inches away. I was under the belief that you could actually use the 580EX II OFF camera with the 1DS3 W/O the STE-2, which I now know is lame because then the 1DS3 would need to have a infrared transmitter. I'm confused about some "new" 1DS3 attribute about controlling the flash in some way previous Canon DSLRs cannot.

John S C · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2008, 09:09:10 am »

It's a shame that you do need a 580 or ST-2 unit to control multiple flash from the 1Ds. I don't know how difficult it would have been to incorporate remote firing within the camera itself.

The only reason I can see to use the cameras controls is that in some circumstances, balancing the output from multiple flash can be easier using the built in controls. Less button pushing on the 580

dwdallam · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2008, 02:24:49 am »

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It's a shame that you do need a 580 or ST-2 unit to control multiple flash from the 1Ds. I don't know how difficult it would have been to incorporate remote firing within the camera itself.

The only reason I can see to use the cameras controls is that in some circumstances, balancing the output from multiple flash can be easier using the built in controls. Less button pushing on the 580
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That must be it then. It makes sense. I see now what it means I think. You can control the flashes from the camera when the flash on the camera is being used as a master, instead of using the flash itself. The thing is, I can't see using a flash on camera when I'm using multiple off camera flashes anyway. I know that a traditional fill light is placed as close to the camera as possible, but that's really kinda antique now. However, I have not tried using a second 580 off camera as a key light AND using one on camera for fill. For one, if you use a flash on camera, even for fill, you risk filling the wrong area due to recomposing (moving the camera, and the flash on it).

I think Canon has simply lost any edge it could have had when it comes to using Canon flashes as you primary source for commercial or other shoots off camera when compared to using Nikon SB28s in manual mode, which sell for 180 each and have the same power output.

On the other hand, I would not be surprised if Canon outperforms Nikon when used on camera in ETTL mode. It's quite good when there is no other way to use a flash. You don't even need a diffuser. They just got it right in that area.

Geoff Wittig · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2008, 07:15:25 pm »

For what it's worth, the STE-2 is a very useful little gadget that takes up a lot less space on the camera's hot shoe than a flash unit. On the rare occasion that I do a formally lit shot with off-camera flash, the STE-2 plus a pair of older 540's work just fine. Sure, it would have been cool if Canon built a wireless transmitter into the Eos-1Ds III; but that would require a whole new set of hardware on the recieving end. The STE-2 and 540's I already own.

For any lighting set-up more elaborate than that, it would be sensible to bite the bullet and get a formal studio lighting kit with umbrellas/soft-boxes etc.

dwdallam · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2008, 01:24:02 am »

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For what it's worth, the STE-2 is a very useful little gadget . . . .

For any lighting set-up more elaborate than that, it would be sensible to bite the bullet and get a formal studio lighting kit with umbrellas/soft-boxes etc.
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Well, it's not really usable outdoors because the IR doesn't work well, or in many instances, at all. I have no idea why Canon used IR. Bose uses radio for their remotes for stereos, which you can use in any room, not IR, and I always thought that was a good idea. I'd bet that IR is cheaper.

But I do find fault with your second statement because it's simply not true any longer. Commercial photos are moving and have already moved to the high powered flash guns for 90% of their work, simply because they don't need a grip truck to move things around, only one bag with 6-8 SB28s and pocket wizards. For the bulk of commercial, that is, shooting CEOs, marketing models, etc., in office buildings, offices, or outside around town, etc. the flash guns are plenty powerful, and offer high speed synch, which studio strobes don't for the most part. I have a full studio set of Alien Bees with 8 stands, booms, etc., but I'll tell you, having to truck that stuff around is no joke, including the battery packs. The flash guns are the way to go if you can use them. If you need a large softbox and you can only get F8 out of one SB28 (or 580) you can simply stick two of them inside the box with clamps, just as an example of the diversity you get using 6-8 guns, which take up about 1/2 SQ foot.

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2008, 09:07:51 am »

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I think Canon has simply lost any edge it could have had when it comes to using Canon flashes as you primary source for commercial or other shoots off camera when compared to using Nikon SB28s in manual mode, which sell for 180 each and have the same power output.

The 550EX and 580EX flashes can be put in manual mode and fired by a Pocket Wizard just as easily as a SB28DX. You simply need to use a hot shoe bracket with a PC jack or the functional equivalent so you can connect the Canon flash to the Pocket Wizard.

dwdallam · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2008, 04:40:12 am »

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The 550EX and 580EX flashes can be put in manual mode and fired by a Pocket Wizard just as easily as a SB28DX. You simply need to use a hot shoe bracket with a PC jack or the functional equivalent so you can connect the Canon flash to the Pocket Wizard.
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Jon that is true, and I'd forgotten that easy fix. But the SB28s are selling for 180.00 brand new. If you are going to use 580EX II in manual, that a lot of wasted money since they go for 400.00 each.

But then we have the new radio popper, which means you can use the STE-2 to control the flash outputs without having to go to each flash and manual adjust it, IF you use the 550-580 flash guns. I don't know about the lower end canon flashes, if they would be powerful enough to use like this. The pros I talked to said the SB 28s are just really simple to use, even if you needed to adjust each one manually. I "just really" like the idea of placing my flashes where I need them, and adjusting them from the STE-2. The price is killing me though.

Also, the Radio Poppers are the same price as the PWs, which is 180 each for both transmitter and receiver, which isn't cheap either.

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2008, 09:50:20 am »

The ST-E2 is not a radio trigger, it's basically a specialized mini-flash that is only capable of controlling other Canon flashes via IR pulses. Any Canon -EX flash can be controlled as a slave, but only the 550EX and 580EX can operate as a master as well. The ST-E2 has the same range and line-of-sight limitations as the 550/580EX. It works fine indoors, especially in rooms with light-colored walls, but outside, especially in bright sun, range is very limited and reliability is not always very good.

If you're going to use RF triggers I really recommend the Pocket Wizards over the cheaper triggers, as they are very reliable, have a longer range, and introduce less delay between the camera triggering and the strobe firing. The delay factor is important, as it allows you to use the highest sync speed the camera allows. If the radio trigger causes too much delay, instead of being able to shoot with strobes at 1/250, you may only be able to shoot at 1/160 or 1/125 before the shutter starts vignetting the shot. You get what you pay for.

If you are going to trigger your flashes with Pocket Wizards and adjust each flash's power manually, then the SB28 is a better choice than the 580EX or 550EX. Besides the price difference, you can adjust the power manually in 1/3-stop increments instead of 1/2-stop increments, and the SB28 has the PC jack on the side.

dwdallam · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:07:05 am »

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The ST-E2 is not a radio trigger, it's basically a specialized mini-flash that is only capable of controlling other Canon flashes via IR pulses. Any Canon -EX flash can be controlled as a slave, but only the 550EX and 580EX can operate as a master as well. The ST-E2 has the same range and line-of-sight limitations as the 550/580EX. It works fine indoors, especially in rooms with light-colored walls, but outside, especially in bright sun, range is very limited and reliability is not always very good.

If you're going to use RF triggers I really recommend the Pocket Wizards over the cheaper triggers, as they are very reliable, have a longer range, and introduce less delay between the camera triggering and the strobe firing. The delay factor is important, as it allows you to use the highest sync speed the camera allows. If the radio trigger causes too much delay, instead of being able to shoot with strobes at 1/250, you may only be able to shoot at 1/160 or 1/125 before the shutter starts vignetting the shot. You get what you pay for.

If you are going to trigger your flashes with Pocket Wizards and adjust each flash's power manually, then the SB28 is a better choice than the 580EX or 550EX. Besides the price difference, you can adjust the power manually in 1/3-stop increments instead of 1/2-stop increments, and the SB28 has the PC jack on the side.
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Jon, I realize all that. Check out Radio Popper here:
[a href=\"http://radiopopper.com/products/view/radiopopper_p1]http://radiopopper.com/products/view/radiopopper_p1[/url]

It converts the IR to RF so you get full ETTL function using a radio. It does everything teh PW do, but retains the functionality of the IR.

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2008, 08:33:41 am »

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Jon, I realize all that. Check out Radio Popper here:

I have no experience with those, so I don't have any idea how good they are. But if you intend to use those, then using a non-Canon flash would be kind of pointless.

dwdallam · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2008, 01:59:42 am »

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I have no experience with those, so I don't have any idea how good they are. But if you intend to use those, then using a non-Canon flash would be kind of pointless.
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Yep. I have to decide if I want to use Canon flashes and the Radio Popper or use SB28s and PWs. The difference in cost is only the flash guns because the RPs are the same price as the PWs.

1. If I use the SB28s and PWs, then I will need to adjust each one physically.

2. If I go with Canon flashes, then I can adjust each one one camera using teh STE-2 if I use the Radio Poppers.

#2 will cost about 200.00 more than #1 for each flash. Perhaps 600.oo US is worth the convenience and speed of being able to adjust each flash from the camera?

Dennishh · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:53:59 am »

Thanks for the info on these radio poppers! They sound just great for most two or three flash set ups.

Author Topic: 1DS3 and Flash Control (Read 9377 times)