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Author Topic: new MF back for photokina  (Read 51265 times)

Ignatz_Mouse

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new MF back for photokina
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2008, 09:39:52 PM »

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I'll post my observations after we check it out on Saturday!

T
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That will be great, the PMW-EX3 looks incredible. I think I'll have to reconsider my buying plans about the PMW-EX1.

Carlos-
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HarperPhotos

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« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2008, 11:43:25 PM »

Gidday,

Was talking to the New Zealand distributor for Phase One about the new back and of course his wasn't giving much away.

He did say that the new chip might not necessarily be a Kodak chip and that there were some other major improvements as well.

Looks like I might be trading in my Leaf Aptus 75 by the end of the year.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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DesW

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« Reply #122 on: June 27, 2008, 05:38:31 AM »

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Gidday,

Was talking to the New Zealand distributor for Phase One about the new back and of course his wasn't giving much away.

He did say that the new chip might not necessarily be a Kodak chip and that there were some other major improvements as well.

Looks like I might be trading in my Leaf Aptus 75 by the end of the year.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=203903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello Simon,

Yes there will be an announcement of interest from Phase at Photokina-- sorry cannot say

anymore

Nick T confirmed this also

Charles Howells told me last week  in Auck the Leaf v Phase shootout was clear cut in the winner-

-call him he will tell you.

Basically we have had the Phase/Mamiya P45+ setup for testing with mixed results.

We also have a RED outfit inhouse.

Our next door Neighbour Jim Ginnaid the inventor and owner of the RED Camera has some  

products in the future that will blow your mind--whether still or Movie based.

If I was Leaf /Phase /etc I would be looking over my shoulder.

Interesting times for MFDB,

Des Williams
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Tim Lüdin

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« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2008, 06:07:29 AM »

Yeah RED will kick ass in the near future. DB makers better be prepared.
Dont want to sound like a wyse guy but it's Jim Jannard who is the founder and owner of RED.

Tim
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mcfoto

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« Reply #124 on: June 27, 2008, 07:52:32 AM »

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Gidday,

Was talking to the New Zealand distributor for Phase One about the new back and of course his wasn't giving much away.

He did say that the new chip might not necessarily be a Kodak chip and that there were some other major improvements as well.

Looks like I might be trading in my Leaf Aptus 75 by the end of the year.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=203903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
 I heard the same line in Sydney " Who says it has to be Kodak" & that was a few months ago? Hey lets wait for Photokina.....................................!

Denis
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 07:58:19 AM by mcfoto »
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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #125 on: June 27, 2008, 08:36:44 AM »

Anyone have a link to some Red One stills?
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Tim Lüdin

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« Reply #126 on: June 27, 2008, 09:54:49 AM »

Hi I dont have stills on the web at the moment. But under this link you will find all clips and still pics
that have been around for month from the RED.
Be aware that not everything is super good. But it has great stuff there.

Link: http://www.reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Tim
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« Reply #127 on: June 27, 2008, 10:13:46 AM »

That Heinz ad is too much!
Thanks for the info.
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James R Russell

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« Reply #128 on: June 27, 2008, 10:34:15 AM »

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That Heinz ad is too much!
Thanks for the info.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=203980\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Something worth noting is how much more horiziontal I now shoot (expecially for commerce) vs how much vertical I shot in the film days.

With film, probably because it was almost pre web, 90% of everything I shot was vertical, now today, more than half comes to me designed in horizontal layouts.

Maybe it's because AD's and designers are working on horizontal computers screens as a Canvas, maybe because there is more web play for each image and obviously horizontal works a lot better on a computer than a vertical.

Regardless, Horizontal is the new vertical, vertical is the old square.

If a young photographer asks me who they should study, I now say Ridley Scott.

JR
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« Reply #129 on: June 27, 2008, 10:45:06 AM »

Yes, me too. I recently shot a 3 day fashion job, and was told to shoot it all horizontal. Never been asked to do that before.
I was told the art directors are thinking more horizontal now due to the shape of computer screens, and the prevalence of video (youtube!) that people across genres have started to visualize and design everything in horizontal.
Even more recently (a couple weeks ago) I shot a cashmere catalog which we have done vertical the past 3 years - this most recent one which comes out in September is horizontal.
It's nice because for horiz. you can hold the camera the proper way around, but when it comes to prints for the portfolio, you are either going across two pages, making the image very small, or cropping like mad...

Anyway, speaking of the Red One, there is something really involving about the "look":
http://red31.com/footage/hongkong0608/stre...f_hong_kong.mov

And by the way, someone asks me who's movies to check out for framing, beautiful visuals, this is the dude I mention:
http://www.imagesjournal.com/issue10/reviews/inthemood/

In the mood for Love is a wicked beautiful movie.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 10:57:09 AM by 203 »
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Tim Lüdin

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« Reply #130 on: June 27, 2008, 10:48:20 AM »

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If a young photographer asks me who they should study, I now say Ridley Scott.


Yeah, Ridley is my man. He has such a great eye. He scetches all his shots first and then shows it to the DP. Most of the time the DP ends up shooting it the way Ridley scribbled it.
His framing is superb.

I also noticed the horizontal shift. Somehow you can use it more often these days.
I like it. It has that moviefeeling to it.  

Tim
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James R Russell

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« Reply #131 on: June 27, 2008, 11:05:00 AM »

Quote from: Tim Lüdin,Jun 27 2008, 10:48 AM
Quote
If a young photographer asks me who they should study, I now say Ridley Scott.
Yeah, Ridley is my man. He has such a great eye. He scetches all his shots first and then shows it to the DP. Most of the time the DP ends up shooting it the way Ridley scribbled it.
His framing is superb.

I also noticed the horizontal shift. Somehow you can use it more often these days.
I like it. It has that moviefeeling to it.  

Tim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=203990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The interesting thing about the Red is since the founder owns Oakley, they have a real marketing background.

They can take this camera where ever they want and keep it at the professional level, or move it also into the consumer realm.

They seem to have no restraints and I honestly thought when they introduced the first camera that would be it for a long time, now they're two more cameras annnouced.

You can see where with just a few modifications this could also be a still camera.  It's obviously the only professional digital camera that has thrown off all the legacy restraints of film and is just it's own device.

Everybody thinks smaller companies like Red have got to look out for Canon or Sony, but honestly I think it's the oppositve.  The huge companies need to look over their shoulder at a company like Red.

Obviously they are not going to become the electronics giant like Sony, but that doesn't mean that can't capture the market for professional imaging.

JR
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DesW

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« Reply #132 on: June 27, 2008, 04:37:11 PM »

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Yeah RED will kick ass in the near future. DB makers better be prepared.
Dont want to sound like a wyse guy but it's Jim Jannard who is the founder and owner of RED.

Tim
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Good Morning Tim,

My apologies to Mr Jannard-- for the misspelling-- I asked his friend how it was it spelt and he said as in GIN?
Maybe there was another connotation in mind--with tongue in cheek of course?

Des W
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TMARK

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« Reply #133 on: June 27, 2008, 10:59:32 PM »

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Where is the demo?
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Sorry for not posting sooner but I've been working my self into the ground.

It is at:

Abel Cine Tech
609 Greenwich St

I think you need an invite, but I'm sure they would let in potential buyers.  There is a session at, I believe, 1:00.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 11:01:25 PM by TMARK »
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BJNY

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« Reply #134 on: June 27, 2008, 11:04:50 PM »

Thank you, TMARK.
I'm not able to attend, so I hope you'll report your findings.
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Guillermo

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« Reply #135 on: June 27, 2008, 11:12:28 PM »

The direction the recent threads on LL took demonstrate the greatness and banality of the web.  Many threads address the future of medium format in particular and still photography in general, or rather "the big picture".  Then there are the threads that keep beating the dead horse of 35 v. mfdb in Escher/Goethal/Bach like repetitions that feel like a fever dream. Its really interesting that these threads coexist.
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TMARK

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« Reply #136 on: June 27, 2008, 11:14:42 PM »

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Thank you, TMARK.
I'm not able to attend, so I hope you'll report your findings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204104\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll post something in this thread tomorrow or Sunday.  

T
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Tim Lüdin

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« Reply #137 on: June 28, 2008, 04:12:50 PM »

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Everybody thinks smaller companies like Red have got to look out for Canon or Sony, but honestly I think it's the oppositve. The huge companies need to look over their shoulder at a company like Red.

Obviously they are not going to become the electronics giant like Sony, but that doesn't mean that can't capture the market for professional imaging.

JR

Yes, I also think that the big companys are in chock at the moment because of RED.
RED has over 4000 cameras on order/sold in the last 10 month. Sony sold 5000 high end hdcams in 5 years. RED came in with a big bang and caught Sony, Panasonic etc of guard.
The Reps of the big three wont tell it publicly but they are all pissed.
The could have ripped us off for ever again but they have to adapt to RED quickly now. Performance and price wise.

The RED "epic" will even kick mor ass early next year. So the others better do their homework quick.

As James stated above I also think that a product like RED could easily be used as a still camera. I just did a pitch for a big pharma company in switzerland where the dual use of the RED as a movie and still camera was very strong argument for the company to hire me. As I said it earlier, the RED wont be used for high end fashion or advertising photography but think 2-3 years ahead and you see where it is going. I get double jobs already.

In the end, we are picture makers. We all  love to take/create great pictures.
Its that kinda passion that drives us forward.
So maybe in a few years we all will also have to be some kinda director/photographer/dp no mather the field.
Just be open minded an embrace the new technology and possebilitys that it can give us. If we older dudes wont the younger will.

On the other hand we should't get to tech driven or we end up on LL and still discuss the same old 35 vs mfdb debate for ever.  

Let's go out and shoot some pics

Tim

wow, Obama couldn't put it nicer.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 04:16:35 PM by Tim Lüdin »
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James R Russell

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« Reply #138 on: June 28, 2008, 05:08:10 PM »

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The RED "epic" will even kick mor ass early next year. So the others better do their homework quick.


Think about how much different things would be if a still camera company thought like Red.

Regardless of what happens in stills, the message from Red is simple, just make something that you have to have and it will sell.



JR
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 06:30:42 PM by James R Russell »
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TMARK

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« Reply #139 on: June 28, 2008, 05:08:16 PM »

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Thank you, TMARK.
I'm not able to attend, so I hope you'll report your findings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204104\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The demo was pretty great.  The E1 and E3 share the same imaging set.  There is no difference in IQ between the two.  What the E3 has over the E1 is the ability to use many, many lenses including 1/2, 2/3, PL mount, F mount, etc. lenses. Adapter included.  The lens that ships with the camera is a Fuji.  It is incredibly sharp with great oof. The E3 can also use a seperate time code that syncs with other cameras when used on a multi-camera shoot.  Otherwise, its (almost) identical to the E1. Full 1080p.

Ergonomics:  The E1 is better, to me.  The way the E3 sits on the shoulder is odd, and its front heavy like the E1, but moree so.  The E3 has more of a Canon GL2 like shape.

IQ:  the images have better tone than almost anything I've seen from a still digital camera. Amazing for people, nice and soft like the RZ lenses.  The best skin tones out of the box of any digital camera I've seen.  Well, the Red is a little better, maybe.  Part of a feature was shown, that was not put through final post.  Really beautiful. Great dynamic range.  Post Works is going to output some of the E1 files to 35mm film and project it. Time TBD.

Price:  about $8,000 for the E3, and $6,000 for the E1.  

These Sony xdcams are like the Canon 5d of hi-def digital video.  These and the Scarlet are the new 16mm.

Build:  like a 5d.  Not all gnarly aluminum like the Red, but solid.  Rental peeps report that they hold up well.

Known issues:  all of the hidef cams with a rolling shutter suffer from frame distortion when wip panned.  The E1 and E3 are no exception.  The Red does this also.  The solution is to turn of the shutter during a wip pan.  The other issue is that if a strobe pops the images fall apart.  They can be synced so they pop when they won't destroy the frame. I don't have a handel on what or why this happens, but it is an issue.  

By the way, I asked the Sony rep about the Alpha.  He said the ones on the shelf were not really Sony designs, but that the new Alphas have inherited alot from the xdcams in terms of color rendition. dynamic range, and on board image processing.

Now my time to bitch:  For the price of a 1ds3, body only, you can walk out of Able Cinetech with a camera that will earn you a $2,000 day rate as a camera operator.  Not a DP, just a camera operator.  No creative input, just show up and pull focus.  The images are amazing.  The new Sony Alpha may be the deal breaker that pulls me from MFDB if it is as good as the E1 in terms of tone and color.  I could sell the P30 and get the new Alpha and an E1, have some extra coin left over for an 8 core mac.  For the initial investment into a Mamiya P30 system with a few lenses (and I'm talking about used camera and lenses, not the expensive new stuff) you could get a high res dslr and an E3, some lenses, and a new Mac.  Ready to face the new era.

In the above E1 and E3 are of course the EX1 and EX3.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 05:20:30 PM by TMARK »
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