Question for J Schewe - Do I need lightroom?

[jljonathan]

I am trying to organize my current digital captures and in the process set up a system that will be usable in the future. From Real World Camera Raw I got a lot of help developing raw captures - I save them out of ACR as processed DNGs - run a batch that opens them as Tifs in PS with layers for local edits - save 16bit tifs as masters to archive  and make tif print masters from.
I set up a folder system similar to that found in Real World Camera Raw:
Digital Captures
                       Converted-DNGs
                       Etc.
Card copies-backup
Card downloads
CR Processed-DNGs
Image-Processor
Workflow-Processed

Digital Captures contains all the original DNGs
CR Processed-DNGs contains shots that have been worked more in CR, usually all have one or more star ratings
Workflow-Processed contains all the Tif Masters and Tif print masters, also web jpegs etc

Once I get everything put where it belongs, How Do I Find Things? Do I need Lightroom's data base for this reason?
I understand someone have folders names for the subject, and then putting individual folders inside for all the separae elements-DNGs,Master,Print etc.
But in the above folder system from RWCR, how do you find individual subjects and topics within the folders? Am I supposed to put separate folders for subjects inside them, or just add images into them on mass? Can someone explain the sequence of events to use with this folder system?
Thanks for any help on this
Jonathan

[Andy M]

What a shame there's no popcorn smilie on this forum...

A while ago I sent Jeff a PM asking a question regarding a product Jeff is commercially involved in, about advice he'd given via a separate product he is involved with (hence you may say I'm a customer of his twice over) as regards a method of processing he is specifically credited for.

As such he was one of very few people who could give me a definitive answer.

His response: "Ask the question in the forums..."

In other words Jonathan, I don't fancy your chances of receiving the answer you may wish for...

[jljonathan]

I don't know about what I would wish for, but I would appreciate some guidance as to the sequence of events to use. For instance, if I download into Card downloads folder on the main drive, do I just move the whole thing into the digital captures folder and into what folder there. And since the Card copies-backup folder is on the main drive, how does copying into that provide backup? I'm just asking for an explanation of the sequence and where to move and copy things. And, the main reason I posted was to ask if I really need Lightroom's database to accomplish this kind of structure, or should I just stick with the old named folder and subfolder for all associated files.
Thanks

[Andy M]

Consider purchasing: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/LR-V1.shtml

[Schewe]

Once I get everything put where it belongs, How Do I Find Things? Do I need Lightroom's data base for this reason?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201581\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For this reason, yes...you need Lightroom (and Camera Raw and Photoshop) for a fully rounded workflow.

[Schewe]

His response: "Ask the question in the forums..."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

First off, I don't know you from Adam...second off, I simply don't have the bandwidth nor inclination  to respond to personal questions via PM...as I recall, you did get an answer in the forums, right?

[David Sutton]

Sorry, but you probably have to work this one out yourself.
Do you need Lightroom? No, but it may make life simpler for you.
Each person finds a workflow that does the job for them in terms of ease of use and for being able to find things. People's needs are different.
As far as LR goes, to see what works for others try starting 3 pages later in this section of the forum and look for threads with "workflow" in them.
FWIW (not much), I have a main folder for each year. When I import into this using LR I create a folder headed "year_month_day  subject details" and my photos are keyworded and go into a sub-folder called "Raw". Later I'll add an "Edits" folder for layered tiffs and a "Print" folder where the layers are collapsed and I've softproofed. That's it.
When I import LR creates a backup on another drive. This is deleted once I'm home and have started  my usual backup with a sync program.
Cheers, David
Edit: I'm so slow at typing, while I was fiddling with the keyboard, you got the direct answer above!

[Andy M]

First off, I don't know you from Adam...second off, I simply don't have the bandwidth nor inclination  to respond to personal questions via PM...as I recall, you did get an answer in the forums, right?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201627\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff,

If people reserved help for only the people they knew then the world would be a very lonely place.

I was going to PM you to keep any grievance off the forum, but alas; once bitten, twice shy. What's more it appears you don't have the bandwidth nor inclination anyway...  

As a side note, and apologies to Jonathan for taking his topic off tangent, but am I the only person to notice that there is less help offered in photography circles than others'?

Sure, there are some photographers who are exceptionally helpful in offering advice - thank you Michael - but I compare it to another hobby of mine, motorsport, and although massively massively competitive, there's a lot of camaraderie and and willingness to try to help each other out, with strangers 'mucking in' for one another in order to help. I had a very small problem with my car and the company of whom I was a customer actually offered to fly a tech engineer to the UK to sort it at zero cost. Although I didn't take up their offer, just the fact that it volunteered impressed me hugely, especially given that the cost of what they were offering was multiples of what I had bought from them.

Ask some photographers what sort of a boom arm they're using, or how they were able to achieve 'X' look and you may as well have shot their granny for the reply you'll usually receive.

C'est la vie!

[KeithR]

...am I the only person to notice that there is less help offered in photography circles than others'?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are kidding aren't you?
Because of the internet there are more venues to seek out and gain answers to whatever question you have. You just have to look. Because someone like Jeff doesn't answer your PM doesn't mean that he's not helpful. He, like many others can pick and choose when and how they wish to respond. Jeff prefers the forums, and I for one am greatful for his time and help. Granted, he has stated that he no longer monitors the PG forums because of his schedule, but he does look in here when time permits and does answer when he can. Forums such as LL, and/or blogs, are abundant and even specific in nature. I'm sure, that if Jeff knew you personally and you sent him a PM, he may answer. Or not. It's his choice. I'm sure you want your choices respected. Mr. Schewe is no different in this respect.

[bjanes]

A while ago I sent Jeff a PM asking a question regarding a product Jeff is commercially involved in, about advice he'd given via a separate product he is involved with (hence you may say I'm a customer of his twice over) as regards a method of processing he is specifically credited for.

As such he was one of very few people who could give me a definitive answer.

His response: "Ask the question in the forums..."

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy,

You do not name the products involved, but I assume you are talking about sharpening in ACR/Lightroom vs PKSharpener. ACR/Lightroom has essentially incorporated the PK capture sharpening workflow, and I have read that future versions of Lightroom will incorporate output sharpening.

This raises questions concerning the future role of PK. Of course, not everyone uses ACR/LR and PK still offers creative sharpening, but there will be less need for PK among Adobe users. I do not know the arrangement between Adobe and PixelGenius, but presumably the consulting fees for incorporating sharpening into ACR/LR will offset decreased revenue from decreased PK sales and there may be contractual restrictions to which we are not privy.

At any rate, there have been few enhancements to PKSharpener recently and I wonder if active development is still underway.

Bill

[feppe]

but am I the only person to notice that there is less help offered in photography circles than others'?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Perhaps. I fire the occasional PM to photographers here and elsewhere when there's a technique or photo I'm interested in, and almost always get an answer - and always cordial. It's understandable that not everyone has the time, especially those who are in the limelight as they must get dozens of such requests each week.

Besides, we have a whole forum right here dedicated almost entirely to helping people out with their questions.

[KeithR]

Andy,

You do not name the products involved, but I assume you are talking about sharpening in ACR/Lightroom vs PKSharpener. ACR/Lightroom has essentially incorporated the PK capture sharpening workflow, and I have read that future versions of Lightroom will incorporate output sharpening.

This raises questions concerning the future role of PK. Of course, not everyone uses ACR/LR and PK still offers creative sharpening, but there will be less need for PK among Adobe users. I do not know the arrangement between Adobe and PixelGenius, but presumably the consulting fees for incorporating sharpening into ACR/LR will offset decreased revenue from decreased PK sales and there may be contractual restrictions to which we are not privy.

At any rate, there have been few enhancements to PKSharpener recently and I wonder if active development is still underway.

Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201762\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would venture a guess that the PhotoKit line will do just fine. PK Sharpener is not the only product they offer. And although input and SOME output sharpening may be incorporated into LR, PK Sharpener offers not only creative sharpening but also output sharpening that LR most likely won't. The LR beta that's out now has versions to output to a few options of inkjet printing. What about those that output to contone, or offset. Do you see anything in the beta that asks which output based on LPI? And what of the graphics people that have no interest in LR but rely on Photoshop? We photogs seem to forget that while LR was developed for us, PS was not. We just adopted it and pushed it to were it we needed it until LR came along. And lets not forget that LR has only been around just over a year!

[Andy M]

First, I'd like to state that I've found information that Jeff has published on the net to have been exceptionally helpful, and have very much enjoyed the LL tutorials he's taken part in. This is by no means meant to be a character assassination, and - though I don't feel it has - I apologise if it has come across this way.

My original question to Jeff was regarding PhotoKit Sharpener, medium contrast enhancement (as described by Jeff and Michael in the LL tutorial), local contrast enhancement (which Martin Evening directly attributes to Jeff in his book) and the newly released 1Ds mk 3 (at the time) with Jeff being a Canon 'Explorer of Light', and one of few fellow owners of the 1Ds 3.

I fully accepted that Jeff is a busy guy, and that he probably faces a myriad of questions - I stated so in the PM - but on this occasion the question was very specific and could - at that time - have only been answered by very few people (only one person replied to the thread I posted on LL).

I felt at the time that in the few seconds it took to write his reply could have actually answered my question, but again c'est la vie.

My intention on this thread wasn't to kick up a fuss, but instead to forewarn Jonathan that he may be better looking elsewhere for an answer...