Pricing in Germany

[jsch]

Hi,

like many I'm comparing the systems in terms of pros and cons and in terms of pricing (items of my interest). Here are my findings in Germany. All prices without tax. I hope I'm not to far off.

Best,
Johannes

Sinar Hy6-e54r / 80mm HFT PQS.......................................18990 Euro (3 year warranty)
Schneider AFD Super-Angulon 2,8/50 HFT PQS......................3781 Euro
Zeiss Planar 2,0/110 HFT PQ...................................... .........4038 Euro
Sinarback eMotion / Sinar Hy6 rotation back-Kit....................1130 Euro
90° Reflex viewfinder Hy6...................................................1188 Euro
(Source https://shop.strato.de/epages/Store10.sf/?O...Shops/15493234)

Phase One P25+ with Camera..............................................21990 Euro (3 year warranty)
(17990 Euro, year warranty)
Sekor AF 28mm f/4.5 D........................................................3890 Euro
Sekor AF 150mm F2.8 IF D Lens.................................................?
Sekor Zoom AF 75-150mm f/4.5 D........................................2764 Euro
(Source prices German dealer)

Hasselblad H3DII-22 with 80 mm (I guess)...........................17.900 Euro (?1 year warranty?)
promotion price 14.950 Euro (Feb 2008)
HCD 4/28.............................................................................3
915 Euro
HC 50-110...........................................................................38
79 Euro
HC 2.2/100..........................................................................286
7 Euro
(various sources)

[thsinar]

I can confirm these Sinar list prices.

Thanks,
Thierry

Sinar list prices:

Sinar Hy6-e54r / 80mm HFT PQS.......................................17625 Euro (3 year warranty)
Schneider AFD Super-Angulon 2,8/50 HFT PQS......................3355 Euro
Zeiss Planar 2,0/110 HFT PQ...................................... .........4038 Euro
Sinarback eMotion / Sinar Hy6 rotation back-Kit....................1045 Euro
90° Reflex viewfinder Hy6...................................................1165 Euro
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200122\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[rethmeier]

That 4038 euro ($6298 USD)  Zeiss Planar 2,0/110 HFT PQ , I won that one on eBay LNIB for $2660 USD.

Good deals can be done on used Rollei gear.

All-up I would have spend  around $15.000 on 5 top lenses.

40 Schneider
55 PCS Schneider
90 Apo Schneider
2/110 Zeiss
2.8/180 Schneider.

O.k they are all manual,however that's what I want anyhow.

Don't get me wrong,$15K for 5 lenses is still a substantial amount of money.
Coupled with my Hy6/75 LV is gets close to $50K and that's certainly up there.

Cheers,
Willem.

[eronald]

Saw the 55 PCS mention there and looked it up. I have a 50mm Mamiya shift lens. It's nickname is gonna be "Not Wide Enough".

Compared to the 24mm Canon  - I regret to say that due to sheer handheld usability and increased angle of view the less sharp Canon wins every time.

Edmund

[rethmeier]

Edmund,

the 55 PCS was designed for 6x6, hence a bigger image circle,compared to the 50 Mamiya.

which was designed for 6x4.5.

Correct the 24TSE is wider,if you can live with the quality.  

Shift lenses don't all have to be wide.

I'm intending to use the 55PCS more for Advertising shoots.

For the wider stuff,I use the Alpa Max with a 35XL.

Happy shooting!

BTW, If you flat stitch the 55PCS ,it becomes pretty wide in landscape or portrait mode.

[Carl Glover]

I've used the the 55mm PCS handheld. The extra 'heft' of the lens keeps it quite steady.

[FrançoisTT]

is 17625 euros a new Sinar price for the Sinar Hy6-e54r / 80mm HFT PQS (3 year warranty)
Because, it is today always at 18990 euros ht on the Sinar online shop (https://shop.strato.de).

[eronald]

I've used the the 55mm PCS handheld. The extra 'heft' of the lens keeps it quite steady.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What I was referring to is that the Canon lens has an auto diaphragm, so you can focus accurately with it and still take fast shots - does the 55PCS do this as well ?

I spent some time recently in NY doing handheld shots with my Mamiya and 50 shift, but simply couldn't reproduce the results I got with the Canon 24. The Canon isn't sharp, but somehow a lot of the pictures click. I think I see dedicated 5D or equivalent in my future which will only be used for the Distagon 21mm and Canon 24mm and Canon 200/1.8.

Edmund

[rethmeier]

The Rollei 55PCS has an A(automatic) + a manual setting,IOW can be used like the Canon 24TS.
Cheers,
Willem.

[eronald]

The Rollei 55PCS has an A(automatic) + a manual setting,IOW can be used like the Canon 24TS.
Cheers,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200359\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Willem.

Edmund

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I can confirm these Sinar list prices.

Thanks,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200169\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How the Sinar list prices vary from country to country here in Europe, Thierry (VAT excluded, of course)?

I have an "initial" price of 22.939 € (VAT excluded) for the Hy6/e54R/AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS from the official distributor here in Spain... This price could be lower after the application of some "discount politics": then, I suppose the definitive price will be something near the Sinar list price...

From the same distributor I have a final price for the Leaf AFi5/AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS/90º viewfinder and 3 year warranty of 19.905 € (VAT excluded)... This "unbeatable offer" supposedly values my Olympus E-1 plus two lenses in 5.000 euros (Leaf AFi5/AFD Xenotar 2,6/80 PQS "initial" price: 23.904 €).

 

[Gigi]

Interesting. In the US - I was just quoted $28k (roughly) for both the Leaf and Sinar from a reputable large scale dealer. The two were about $1k apart, but I can't remember which one was a bit higher. Full kit, with 80 mm AF lens.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

The two were about $1k apart, but I can't remember which one was a bit higher. Full kit, with 80 mm AF lens.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Leaf, probably.

[BJNY]

In the US - I was just quoted $28k (roughly) for both the Leaf and Sinar from a reputable large scale dealer. The two were about $1k apart, but I can't remember which one was a bit higher. Full kit, with 80 mm AF lens.

Makes the H3DII-31 promo at $18K a steal.

[eronald]

Since people and goods can freely travel throughout the EU, these price differences are quite remarkable. You could bring this to your dealer's attention and inform him that if he is not interested in conformity to the European market, you might look elsewhere yourself. (More precisely: Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France.) When you are a pro you won't have to pay VAT when bringing in goods from elswhere in the EU. That's even better than having to ask for a refund from the Taxman afterwards. This whole construction of the European Union and the introduction of the Euro currency was meant to open up the European internal market place and give us all better prices due to more competition between national sellers. You should take advantage of this. That's almost a moral obligation.

EPd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200800\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Any EU dealer is legally obligated to sell to any buyer in the EU. There were some lawsuits involving car dealers and price differentials enforced by the car manufacturers and they ended with huge fines for the car companies.

Edmund

[thsinar]

Dear Ignatz,

Our Sinar list prices are recommended prices.

Ask your distributor to value your Olympus kit the same way and you will be there, respectively cheaper.

Best regards,
Thierry

How the Sinar list prices vary from country to country here in Europe, Thierry (VAT excluded, of course)?

I have an "initial" price of 22.939 € (VAT excluded) for the Hy6/e54R/AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS from the official distributor here in Spain... This price could be lower after the application of some "discount politics": then, I suppose the definitive price will be something near the Sinar list price...

From the same distributor I have a final price for the Leaf AFi5/AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS/90º viewfinder and 3 year warranty of 19.905 € (VAT excluded)... This "unbeatable offer" supposedly values my Olympus E-1 plus two lenses in 5.000 euros (Leaf AFi5/AFD Xenotar 2,6/80 PQS "initial" price: 23.904 €).

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200756\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Dear Ignatz,

Our Sinar list prices are recommended prices.

The price for the Sinar kit DOES INCLUDE the revolving adapter, which Leaf does not have.

Ask your distributor to value your Olympus kit the same way and you will be there, respectively cheaper.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200861\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

The 22 MPx Dalsa in the eMotion backs sensor cannot be compared with the 31 MPx on a price level: different CCD, different technology, different price, although it seems weird to have a 31 MP cheaper than 22 one.

Best regards,
Thierry

Makes the H3DII-31 promo at $18K a steal.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]