Top Down Camera Position and Commercial

[dwdallam]

I have a job coming up soon that will require me to shoot some of the items top down. Does anyone have any suggestion as to how I should mount my camera to do that, you know, to keep the lens parallel to the item while at the same time making the camera mount sturdy enough from which to shoot? I'm trying to avoid a full on rail system at this time. I just have too much money going out in other related areas to incur yet another expense right now.

I was thinking about getting a Super Clamp and Magic Arm and using a piece of pipe over the set to mount the camera. Am I on the right track here or about to reinvent the wheel?

[keithrsmith]

If thenietemis small enough, put it on the floor. and put a tripod over the top with the column reversed.

Keith

[dwdallam]

If thenietemis small enough, put it on the floor. and put a tripod over the top with the column reversed.

Keith
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You mean where the column goes from vertical to horizontal, like on my Manfrotto 3021? The biggest item I think she said is around 24" by 24" and a few inches deep. The problem is getting the camera away from the tripod enough w/o turning the tripod over or shooting the tripod itself. As you say, the size of the object is the limiting factor here.

[peteh]

You mean where the column goes from vertical to horizontal, like on my Manfrotto 3021? The biggest item I think she said is around 24" by 24" and a few inches deep. The problem is getting the camera away from the tripod enough w/o turning the tripod over or shooting the tripod itself. As you say, the size of the object is the limiting factor here.
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How about 2 ladders and run a plank between them and clamp or bolt your tripod head to the plank or rent some scafolding?

[Chris_Brown]

I have a job coming up soon that will require me to shoot some of the items top down. Does anyone have any suggestion as to how I should mount my camera to do that, you know, to keep the lens parallel to the item while at the same time making the camera mount sturdy enough from which to shoot?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199483\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Use a Gitzo GT5560SGT with a sliding center column and a G532 lateral arm, or get the ultimate item: a 12' Foba or Cambo studio stand. If you work on studio still life a lot, you'll never regret it.

[Hank]

I frequently use one of our heavy light booms.  Mount your ballhead on the end, spin the boom to reverse camera or simply rotate the ballhead, then use the stanchion to adjust to fit your set.  Wheels on the boom make it really easy to position, then move out of the way for work on the set, whether big or small.  Think of it as a "long arm" camera stand.  If your light boom isn't beefy you may need to add shot bags or other counterweights to the base for additional stability, but the counterweight on the boom is plenty big to offset the camera for ease of swings.  Some booms are flexible enough that a release may be a good idea for longer exposures.

A good portable boom is an easy way to move a "camera stand" into locations away from the studio too, even when you don't need the feature of the spinnable column for reverse shooting.  It's so handy that I keep a spare Superball in the bag with one of our portable booms.  On smooth substrates with room for the boom I'd almost rather use it than a tripod.

BTW-  This setup is about the only thing I've found to work well when shooting straight down over a large light table- think "copy stand" with a 4' x 8' base.  You can get on a ladder to position yourself over the viewfinder while the wheeled light stand allows you to shift the camera around for framing without dismounting the ladder and while looking through the viewfinder.  Priceless.

[Hank]

It occurs to me that you might not have a light boom, much less a portable one for location shooting.  I've used this accesory arm in the field, too.  It's econimical and mounts on the center column of a tripod, then you mount your ballhead on the end.  It allows lateral movement without moving the tripod, plus you can spin it.  With the camera flopped all the way to one side on the ballhead, it's really easy to get "top side down" positions simply by spinning the shaft within it's mount.  If you need freer movement of your tripod, this page describes a number of tripod dollies so you can adjust for your budget.  We find them immensely useful and almost never use a tripod indoors without one.  Combined with the accessory arm, you can turn your existing tripod into a really versatile tool for the job you hint at.

[jjlphoto]

Do you need to be totally overhead? Many items like "look down" fashion can be set on a slight inclined board, so a regular tripod will suffice. Or if your tripod legs go wide enough, just use it with the head pointed down. I do lots of parts catalogs that way.

[Plekto]

With the previous post in mind, would it be possible to put some of them on their side and get the camera a few inches from the floor?(this assumes a suitable background/etc behind it, of course)

[Hank]

If I need to shoot close to the floor, I use either of two approaches, depending on the tripod and the shooting circumstances.  If need be I reverse the center column so the ballhead is on the bottom.  That's pretty straight forward if the legs don't get in your way.

For macro shooting in the field and situations where legs will get in the way when using the reversed center column, I screw my ballhead onto one our many Bogen (Manfrotto) Super Clamps with the appropriate stud in it (3/8" if memory serves).  Then I clamp the Super Clamp onto the leg of my tripod or other suitable support up to a little over 2" in diameter, if I recall the SC specs correctly.  That's really the simplest and is extremely versatile and flexible for field use.  You just loosen the clamp with a flick of the lever, then slide it up or down or spin it around the leg for quick positioning, then flick the lever again to reclamp it.  It's way easier than resetting the whole tripod, especially for macro.

We keep a bunch of Super Clamps around for mounting lights to railings and such on our industrial shoots, but they're so handy in the field that I usually keep one clamped onto the leg of each of our field tripods.

[dwdallam]

How about 2 ladders and run a plank between them and clamp or bolt your tripod head to the plank or rent some scafolding?
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Well that was what I was going to do with the super clamps and magic arm, but with two tripods and a pole attached to them.

[dwdallam]

Use a Gitzo GT5560SGT with a sliding center column and a G532 lateral arm, or get the ultimate item: a 12' Foba or Cambo studio stand. If you work on studio still life a lot, you'll never regret it.
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I have a Manfrotto 3021 with the interchangable center column. I also have a Gitzo LZV Carbon fiber with a RRS BH55 ball head, but it does not have the option of a center horizontal column.

[dwdallam]

I frequently use one of our heavy light booms.
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Hank,

I didn't even think about that. I do have a really thick aluminum boom with a nice 10lb counter on it that I hardly ever use, since I use smaller and more agile Photoflex booms. But that big sucker just got it's new job cut out for it. I'll just put that on my rolling stand and it should work fine.

I'm wondering if a Magic Arm would even hold a 1DS3 with a 24-70 on it? I guess it doesn't matter though because I can simply screw the ball head onto the light stud--done.

Thanks to all who posted help. All very informative and helps me not reinvent the wheel.

[dwdallam]

I screw my ballhead onto one our many Bogen (Manfrotto) Super Clamps with the appropriate stud in it (3/8" if memory serves). 
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I posted this in another thread, but wanted to ask you: I have a Bogen 3039 Super Pro head and I wanted to use that for the light stand boom method. However, I cannot figure out how to get the 3039 head unscrewed from the 3021 tripod center column. There is a plastic piece that fits inside of the column that then screws into the top of the column by twisting the bottom of the column. But that piece is a part of the tripod, not head. I just cannot figure how to get it off.

You know?

[Hank]

I'm not acquainted with that head, but we've had a 3021 and a 3221 (black version) for going on 30 years.  But ours are old enough that there's a chance the column arrangement is different than yours.  Sure sounds like it, cuzz I'm having trouble following your description.  

On ours there's a flat plate (also removeable by unscrweing from the column once the head is off) at the end of the column with a stud on top that the head screws into.  If you look at the bottom of the plate there are three headless screws.  They are actually friction screws or jam screws for locking down the head once it is screwed onto its stud.  Backing them off a few turns frees up the head so it can spin off the stud for removal.  My wife used to get pretty frustrated with me because I would spin the heads down real tight onto the stud before tightening the three friction screws, and she couldn't spin the head off.  It was a good arrangement, so I'm not sure why they would have changed it in subsequent versions.  If yours has the friction screws, backing them off should let you spin off the head, even if some effort is required to get it started.

If that description doesn't help you sort out your own, I'd call a good pro gear shop and ask to talk to their tripod person.  It's been years since I have been in touch with him, but Glazers in Seattle (206.624.1100 or 1.888.531.3232) used to have a guy who really knew his Bogens.  

Anyone else familiar with the description and can help?

[peteh]

I'm not acquainted with that head, but we've had a 3021 and a 3221 (black version) for going on 30 years.  But ours are old enough that there's a chance the column arrangement is different than yours.  Sure sounds like it, cuzz I'm having trouble following your description. 

On ours there's a flat plate (also removeable by unscrweing from the column once the head is off) at the end of the column with a stud on top that the head screws into.  If you look at the bottom of the plate there are three headless screws.  They are actually friction screws or jam screws for locking down the head once it is screwed onto its stud.  Backing them off a few turns frees up the head so it can spin off the stud for removal.  My wife used to get pretty frustrated with me because I would spin the heads down real tight onto the stud before tightening the three friction screws, and she couldn't spin the head off.  It was a good arrangement, so I'm not sure why they would have changed it in subsequent versions.  If yours has the friction screws, backing them off should let you spin off the head, even if some effort is required to get it started.

If that description doesn't help you sort out your own, I'd call a good pro gear shop and ask to talk to their tripod person.  It's been years since I have been in touch with him, but Glazers in Seattle (206.624.1100 or 1.888.531.3232) used to have a guy who really knew his Bogens. 

Anyone else familiar with the description and can help?
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Maybe this would work with a super clamp too?
[a href=\"http://www.white-lightning.com/lb11.html]http://www.white-lightning.com/lb11.html[/url]

[Hank]

Yeah, that would work, but no need for the Super Clamp unless you wanted to be able to slide it around on the arm for fine tuning without having to reposition the arm.  You can put a 3/8" stud in the end of the boom and attach your ballhead directly to that.

It really looks like a knockoff of the lightweight Bogen portable boom.  I've used our Bogen version with a ballhead and camera on the end of the boom, but you need to add about 20 pounds of counterweight to the bottom of the stand's center column to keep the whole works from tipping if you extend the boom very far.  It's made much handier too, with a dolly under the legs.

I'm not in the studio right now and can't remember who made our favorite "semi-portable" boom.  It has wheels with good locks permanently mounted on each leg and legs with enough spread to minimize the chance of tipping.  The neat part is that with the legs retracted the wheels still contact the floor and with the boom removed it will stand upright without a prop, making it really handy for stowing or for transport.  The swivel lock mechanism for managing the boom is super reliable and easy to use, too.

Of course there's not too much worry about tipping because without the boom it weighs around 75 pounds.  I think the 3-section column must go up close to 15 feet or a little more, because it only collapses down to around 6'.  The boom is 2-piece though not collapsible.  You can use the sections together for 12' of extension or in their separate 6' pieces.  I say "semi-portable" because though you can dismantle it and load it into a truck, you better need it on location before doing so.

[peteh]

Yeah, that would work, but no need for the Super Clamp unless you wanted to be able to slide it around on the arm for fine tuning without having to reposition the arm.  You can put a 3/8" stud in the end of the boom and attach your ballhead directly to that.

It really looks like a knockoff of the lightweight Bogen portable boom.  I've used our Bogen version with a ballhead and camera on the end of the boom, but you need to add about 20 pounds of counterweight to the bottom of the stand's center column to keep the whole works from tipping if you extend the boom very far.  It's made much handier too, with a dolly under the legs.

I'm not in the studio right now and can't remember who made our favorite "semi-portable" boom.  It has wheels with good locks permanently mounted on each leg and legs with enough spread to minimize the chance of tipping.  The neat part is that with the legs retracted the wheels still contact the floor and with the boom removed it will stand upright without a prop, making it really handy for stowing or for transport.  The swivel lock mechanism for managing the boom is super reliable and easy to use, too.
Mine is 4ft.long and you could use lead or shot lead pouches for soft diving weights.They go in soft diving belts.From 2-4 lbs hanging on the back of the boom.
Mine is VERY well built.I would hang 30lbs.out 5 ft.
"Old woodworker,"NEVER enough CLAMPS !"

Of course there's not too much worry about tipping because without the boom it weighs around 75 pounds.  I think the 3-section column must go up close to 15 feet or a little more, because it only collapses down to around 6'.  The boom is 2-piece though not collapsible.  You can use the sections together for 12' of extension or in their separate 6' pieces.  I say "semi-portable" because though you can dismantle it and load it into a truck, you better need it on location before doing so.
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[peteh]

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The boom has COURSE adjustments. Beware of the weight on the OTHER end
( heavy section ) !SLOW BUT SURE !

[dwdallam]

  If you look at the bottom of the plate there are three headless screws.  They are actually friction screws or jam screws for locking down the head once it is screwed onto its stud.  Backing them off a few turns frees up the head so it can spin off the stud for removal.
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Yep, that is exactly what I see. I put it on but forgot about those three screws.

Thanks a lot!

(What would we do w/o the internet?)

Do you know what type of converter stud I need to mount the head directly on the boom? The screw is too small for the head's hole.

I think this will do it:
[a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=546490&addedTroughType=replacementLink]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...replacementLink[/url]