auto-levels settings

[pco98]

I currently have my auto levels set at 0.10% for black point and a very conservative 0.01% for white. Am I being too conservative? I'm a travel photographer so shoot all kinds of scenes.

Would like to hear what settings other people use in case I'm picking up a bad habit.

Ross

[Mark D Segal]

I currently have my auto levels set at 0.10% for black point and a very conservative 0.01% for white. Am I being too conservative? I'm a travel photographer so shoot all kinds of scenes.

Would like to hear what settings other people use in case I'm picking up a bad habit.

Ross
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Unless you are in a big rush or making-do with so-so work, auto-anything is a bad habit. For top quality, custom adjust your images to what they need.

[pco98]

Thanks for the reply.

I see my original post gave an unclear impression of my workflow. I just use auto-levels to get me in the ballpark. I then fine tune each image from there. If it gives a cast then I do a luminosity auto-levels. But again it's just ballpark, I then fine tune.

Any recommendations for particular ballpark settings from those using a similar approach to image adjustment and are mine too conservative?

Ross

[rdonson]

I'll reiterate Mark's comment:  auto-anything is a bad idea.  I have no idea why you think that auto levels gets you "in the ballpark".  Levels generally isn't a good adjustment anyway.  Learn how to use curves in Photoshop.

Perhaps you should look at Lightroom as a way to more easily adjust your images.

[Mark D Segal]

Learn how to use curves in Photoshop.

Perhaps you should look at Lightroom as a way to more easily adjust your images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes - in general Curves is a much more versatile and useful tool for dealing with brightness, contrast and colour casts. The main advantage of making Curves-like adjustments in Lightroom is that it works up-stream of the rendering process (less destructive) and it has a series of controls that are quite intuitive and easy to work with. That said, for those who own Photoshop CS3, about all the Develop tools in Lightroom exist in Camera Raw 4.3, so in these respects about the same features can be had without investing in another piece of software. [Lightroom has other advantages (in particular in the Library, Print and Web modules) which aren't as eloquently adressed in a Photoshop environment. ]

[rdonson]

Mark,

I still prefer Lightroom to ACR.  I know the engine is the same but the user experience isn't.

[Mark D Segal]

Mark,

I still prefer Lightroom to ACR.  I know the engine is the same but the user experience isn't.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200502\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yup I agree, it's a nice program, but for someone who may not wish to spend another 300 bucks on software and already has ACR 4.x, not clear the "experience" is necessarily worthwhile! I own both and I find myself using ACR most of the time because of workflow considerations. I use LR for my web galleries.

[Ken Bennett]

Would like to hear what settings other people use in case I'm picking up a bad habit.

Ross
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi, Ross,

Are you saying that you click Auto Levels, then go on to adjust from there? That's a bad habit. Seriously. There are plenty of photos that do not need to have the tonal range stretched from one side of the histogram to the other, which is what auto levels does.

If you are using Levels to make a single, final, last-after-everything-else adjustment to images headed for print, and you are just tweaking the black and white points to hold detail on paper, that's different. And that's what your original questions sounds like you might be trying to accomplish. (And it can't be done with the Auto setting, though you could create an Action that would do this.) But later it sounds like you are using Auto Levels as a starting point in your workflow.

Really, don't do that.

If you are shooting RAW, set white and black points in your raw processor. If you are shooting JPEGs, you should be very careful about nailing your exposure so that your camera sets those white and black points in the proper places when it processes the files for you.  (Watching the histogram, that sort of thing.)

--Ken

[hassiman]

I do not have lightroom and from in-camera I always shoot RAW.  I am just learning to use the parametric adjustment sliders in ACR and find them quite intuitive...  I am just getting a grasp on how to properly use curves. Since the RAW file remains untouched i figure it's no harm-no foul.  I do not use any auto adjustments... I may look at what it suggests... but it's usually pretty far off.

Am I incorrect in thinking that the beauty part of ACR is the no matter how you apply adjustments in ACR the program makes sure to apply them in the proper order?

[Mark D Segal]

Am I incorrect in thinking that the beauty part of ACR is the no matter how you apply adjustments in ACR the program makes sure to apply them in the proper order?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200619\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Correct, the program processes all the adjustments in the proper order.

[Peter_DL]

I see my original post gave an unclear impression of my workflow. I just use auto-levels to get me in the ballpark. I then fine tune each image from there. If it gives a cast then I do a luminosity auto-levels. But again it's just ballpark, I then fine tune.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Black and White auto-clipping controls are also offered with the Shadow/Highlight tool in Photoshop.
This may make sense under some circumstances (depends where you’re coming from).
Anyway, I’d go for very conservative settings such as 0.02% with both for a start
- finally applied on a duplicate layer in Luminosity blend mode, perhaps at somewhat reduced Opacity of 80%.

With the Auto Options of the Levels or Curves tool it’s easy to encounter some difficulties
while the respective sub-menu seems to be somewhat disconnected from the main Levels or Curves dialog.

Peter

--

[pco98]

Hello all,

Been in the mountains (Himalayas :-) ) so not had email contact. Interesting to hear about the comments on my workflow.

Just to clarify, I was using the auto settings in curves to do the basic adjustment. First started working like this with scans and now continue to do so with my RAW files (using Aperture and its auto levels and sometimes PS and auto in curves). I find that the auto levels (in curves or in Aperture) always looks better than the before image - contrast is given a boost. I always compare and then I work from their. I picked up the habit from Bob Atkins (earthboundlight.com) lessons on curves etc. Perhaps I misunderstood his lessons and workflow but I think he was suggesting it as a good place to get started.


taming auto colour

Revisiting the article I see he refers to it as auto-colour rather than auto levels but I think this doesn't change the points that you have all been making.

In particular, his end point is what has stuck in my head and my workflow (my italics):


'Even with the ability to tweak the options used for Auto Color this way, you may still need to manually tweak Levels, Curves and use other image adjustment tools to get the best image possible, but you can often get closer more quickly with this tamed version of Auto Color than with any other means. It's well worth exploring.'


He also has a related article:

auto-colour

but the main one/point is the above one.

If I see an image looks too contrasty or highlights are too blown or something else bad after the initial auto-colour then I will redo the black and white points (either luminosity or per channel) as well as getting into the nitty-gritty of curves manipulation. I do work on each image and don't just auto only. I think if I wasn't to use the auto option my instinct would still be to start with the black and white points (whether luminosity or per channel) and bring them in towards the ends of the histogram and then work with the curves from there.


I find it hard to envision another workflow which would be radically different to this as I think it is the fine tuning which brings out the best of the image but I am open to your ideas and suggestions and am not entrenching myself to Bob/my current workflow. Are you suggesting it's better to work with the inbetween curves points (dark, mid, light) first and then look at the end points?

Would also like to hear what you think of Bob's article and if that clarifies any misconceptions about my workflow. Or if it is indeed a bad habit to do as above article suggests.

Ross

[rdonson]

Ross,

Bob Johnson (not Atkins) has a number articles on how to use curves effectively as well without the "auto" settings.

General rule of thumb is that "auto" anything in PS isn't good practice.  You don't know what its doing to achieve the results.  For absolute beginners it might be appropriate.  You're far better off in Photoshop to learn how to use curves and other tools effectively and bypassing "auto".  In the long run you'll get to the best image faster.

That said I don't know enough about how Aperture handles "auto" to comment on that.