Topic: Phase One 645 - first impressions (Read 14018 times)

Paul2660 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2008, 09:04:56 am »

Snook,

Sorry if my other post caused confusion.

Mamiya will offer the AFDIII under their brand, see their link in my prevous post. All they currently have on their site is that one web page no pricing or availability. If you buy it from Mamiya it will say AFDIII, I base this on the picture they show on their site.

Phase One will rebadge the AFDIII body per the other link, this camera will carry the Phase one name. They are also rebadging or re selling the new 80mm lens with the metal barrel with the body.

I don't think Phase One is making any of this equipment, just rebadging it.

Everyone seems to think it's exactly the same camera, just rebadged. Only Mamiya and Phase One can really answer that, and so far they really haven't said much in that area. They have talked around it however very well.

Thsinar, Thanks to the other post on the pricing, I left out the fact that for the 4300.00 you are getting the 80mm lens also. That is a price increase over the AFDII and the current 80mm which should retail for around 3600.00 body and lens.

Paul C

Guy Mancuso · « **Reply #21 on:** June 05, 2008, 10:23:21 am »

It's just rebadged folks . But Phase gets the body first to sell with there backs, waiting for mine right now than Mamiya will release after a period of time which i don't know when that is but my guess is August.

I do have a question though and that is the noise from the body. I know they dampened the mirror and shutter. On a percentage level how much quieter is it than the current AFDII.

BJNY · « **Reply #22 on:** June 05, 2008, 04:24:18 pm »

Quote

The enduser price list from SBI USA says:

- Sinar Hy6 with 80mm = US$ 6'542.- with a 3-Year Warranty

The PO link provided by "mcfoto" says:

- "By itself the Phase One 645 and Phase One 80mm lens will be $4,990 with a classic warranty or $7,990 with a value added warranty".

Best regards,
Thierry

Once the 45º prism or 90º finder is added to $6,542
the standard camera kits from Hasselblad, Mamiya & Sinar
are all similarly priced.

James R Russell · « **Reply #23 on:** June 05, 2008, 08:45:12 pm »

Quote

Once the 45º prism or 90º finder is added to $6,542
the standard camera kits from Hasselblad, Mamiya & Sinar
are all similarly priced.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199936\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

$3,000 to warranty a camera for three years seems a bit steep, dealer loaner or not.

Looking at all of the pricing from medium format you just assume that something has got to give, hopefully in a good way for the photographer.

I don't understand this value added stuff, though I guess there is good markup there for someone, but I think at the price ranges, a 3 year warranty would be the norm, not an add on.

Regardless I'm surprised at the prices of lenses, but I guess this bears out that making a lens or in japan or germany doesn't change the price the way it used to.

Oh well, back to my Contax.

JR

thsinar · « **Reply #24 on:** June 05, 2008, 09:55:21 pm »

James,

This is the norm(al) warranty with Sinar digital backs and cameras, as well as accessories, since always = 3 year warranty

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

$3,000 to warranty a camera for three years seems a bit steep, dealer loaner or not.

but I think at the price ranges, a 3 year warranty would be the norm, not an add on.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James R Russell · « **Reply #25 on:** June 06, 2008, 12:31:13 pm »

Quote

James,

This is the norm(al) warranty with Sinar digital backs and cameras, as well as accessories, since always = 3 year warranty

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200003\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Right . . . good, but isn't this really built into the price of an HY6 and a Sinar back?

One large Los Angeles dealer said the price of a HY6 and Sinar 33mp back was $39,900 U.S. (without prism).

Next how long does it take to process out 2,000 files in Sinar software and will the files work in other raw converters without a dng conversion?

Can sinar sell an HY6 and a comparable back at these prices or better put, what is the complete US price of a Sinar back HY6 and 80mm lens with a prism?

P30+ Camera
Starting at $22,490

31.6mp | P1 645 | 80mm
        p1 camera system 4

P25+ Camera
Starting at $23,490

22mp | P1 645 | 80mm
        p1 camera system 3

P45+ Camera
Starting at $32,490

39mp | P1 645 | 80mm
        p1 camera system 5

_
JR

thsinar · « **Reply #26 on:** June 06, 2008, 12:50:36 pm »

Quote

Right . . . good, but isn't this really built into the price of an HY6 and a Sinar back?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James, isn't this really built into the price of a Mamiya/Phase 645 and Phase back? Or in the price of any other brand?
My point is: the prices given for any Sinar product are always with a 3 year warranty.
From there one can then compare easily.

Quote

One large Los Angeles dealer said the price of a HY6 and Sinar 33mp back was $39,900 U.S. (without prism).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200083\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know this large LA dealer, but I know SBI's published price list (see below): the Sinar Hy6 - e75 (33 MPx) is priced at US$ at 38'000.- AND, see above, WITH a 3 year warranty.
What I read from your detailed prices below is "P45+ Camera Starting at $32,490": what does that mean? Probably with a 1-year warranty

Quote

Next how long does it take to process out 2,000 files in Sinar software and will the files work in other raw converters without a dng conversion?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200083\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sinar's eXposure SW does create DNGs automatically, there is no processing time for this, and those DNGs can be taken over by all existing DNG compatible applications.

Quote

Can sinar sell an HY6 and a comparable back at these prices or better put, what is the complete US price of a Sinar back HY6 and 80mm lens with a prism?
P30+ Camera
Starting at $22,490

31.6mp | P1 645 | 80mm
p1 camera system 4

P25+ Camera
Starting at $23,490

22mp | P1 645 | 80mm
p1 camera system 3

P45+ Camera
Starting at $32,490

39mp | P1 645 | 80mm
p1 camera system 5
_
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200083\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The complete Sinar price list from SBI can be found here:

[a href=\"http://sinarbron.com/documents/Sinar_Pricing_2008.pdf]http://sinarbron.com/documents/Sinar_Pricing_2008.pdf[/url]

You have criticized more than often those not having a clear price list: have a look to this one, and tell me if something is missing. It's long, admitted, and sorry for all those products/items we have in our catalog, but it is clear and straight, for each existing Sinar product, analog and digital.

Best regards,
Thierry

James R Russell · « **Reply #27 on:** June 06, 2008, 01:23:18 pm »

Quote

James, isn't this really built into the price of a Mamiya/Phase 645 and Phase back? Or in the price of any other brand?
My point is: the prices given for any Sinar product are always with a 3 year warranty.
From there one can then compare easily.
I don't know this large LA dealer, but I know SBI's published price list (see below): the Sinar Hy6 - e75 (33 MPx) is priced at US$ at 38'000.- AND, see above, WITH a 3 year warranty.
What I read from your detailed prices below is "P45+ Camera Starting at $32,490": what does that mean? Probably with a 1-year warranty
Sinar's eXposure SW does create DNGs automatically, there is no processing time for this, and those DNGs can be taken over by all existing DNG compatible applications.
The complete Sinar price list from SBI can be found here:

http://sinarbron.com/documents/Sinar_Pricing_2008.pdf

You have criticized more than often those not having a clear price list: have a look to this one, and tell me if something is missing. It's long, admitted, and sorry for all those products/items we have in our catalog, but it is clear and straight, for each existing Sinar product, analog and digital.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree that every camera in this price range should have a 3 year warranty and tacking on another 25 to 30% is just a fear buy. If the camera is built well it will make three years, if it's not then well it should be fixed.

As far as published prices, I don't care if anyone ever publishes a price, but it just makes no marketing sense that anybody requires a customer to go talk to a dealer just to see standard list prices, anymore than it makes sense for Hasselblad to require you to register for a magazine and the resulting spam just to see a sales price.

Still, how long does it take to process 2,000 sinar files in your new software, can you rename on the fly, background process, move files to other drives by drag and drop.

As we all know software is now as important as the hardware.

JR

eronald · « **Reply #28 on:** June 06, 2008, 01:30:11 pm »

Quote

I agree that every camera in this price range should have a 3 year warranty and tacking on another 25 to 30% is just a fear buy. If the camera is built well it will make three years, if it's not then well it should be fixed.
As we all know software is now as important as the hardware.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200094\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James,

I have had the shutter of my old 1Ds replaced twice already. "Somebody" told me that they are seeing 7x clicks on the digital SLRs compared to the film SLRs over the same warranty periods.

Edmund

James R Russell · « **Reply #29 on:** June 06, 2008, 01:32:06 pm »

Quote

James,

I have had the shutter of my 1Ds replaced twice already. "Somebody" told me that they are seeing 7x clicks on the digital SLRs compared to the film SLRs over the same warranty periods.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I have my 1ds2 shutter replaced also, but for some reason never the original 1ds that I still use.

On Canon's behalf they fixed it in a day and though out of warranty it was no charge.

JR

thsinar · « **Reply #30 on:** June 06, 2008, 01:48:14 pm »

As said, James, you get DNGs, when shooting tethered or downloading from your internal memory or from a CF card.

- renaming on the fly: yes, is instant on 24 images (just tried it), and probably the same for 2'000. Just select the files in the contact sheet to be renamed and type the new name in a window, then click "OK"

- background process: one can create, save, load, copy or paste parameters (input profile, working space, rotation, white balance, exposure, contrast, curve, saturation, colour temperature/tint, crop, USM, etc ...) and apply them to as many files as wished, by selecting the files in the contact sheet on which these parameters should be applied.
Those saved parameters can be managed separately and be assigned.

- From there one can export as TIF (or JPG) and the export takes 22.3 sec/file on a MacPro 2 x 2,66GHz, 4GB RAM, OS 10.4.11 and 25.6 sec/file on y MacBookPro 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 2 GB Ram and OSX 10.5.3 (my setup). When taking over to a DNG application, there is no need to export since the DNGs are already there (in the folder of your choice), and the parameters are taken over.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

Still, how long does it take to process 2,000 sinar files in your new software, can you rename on the fly, background process, move files to other drives by drag and drop.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200094\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

laughingbear · « **Reply #31 on:** June 06, 2008, 05:54:14 pm »

Quote

- From there one can export as TIF (or JPG) and the export takes 22.3 sec/file on a MacPro 2 x 2,66GHz, 4GB RAM, OS 10.4.11

Hey Thierry,

That would be 12 hours and 38 minutes for 2,000 files on a crutch like yours. Just kiddin

A 3.2 Ghz 8x core with 16 Gig Ram and SAS drives should do "slightly" faster.

James, I must say, from my own research, I found Sinar the most transparent considering warranty and pricing, and well, you do your own comparison, but I also think it to be really ridiculous to even offer a camera on that scale with a 1 years only warranty.

Btw. to the best of my knowledge, Sinar even garantees a 10 years availability on spare parts, talk about a piece of mind solution.

Best wishes
Georg Baumann
Oceanviewstudio

mcfoto · « **Reply #32 on:** June 06, 2008, 06:19:19 pm »

Hi
Having owned Mamiya since 1999 I would not spend the extra $3000.00 for the value added Warranty. What I would do is buy an extra body for backup. I have had no problems with the AFDII. For the amount of use with the Mamiya I had more problems with my Hasselblad 500 CM to be honest plus I could barely focus the Blad even with a bright screen.
Denis

thsinar · « **Reply #33 on:** June 06, 2008, 10:06:12 pm »

Quote

Hey Thierry,

That would be 12 hours and 38 minutes for 2,000 files on a crutch like yours. Just kiddin

A 3.2 Ghz 8x core with 16 Gig Ram and SAS drives should do "slightly" faster.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, that's true! But not much worse than PO's C1 (11 hours and 40 min) tested on the very same machine.

But this would not be my workflow anyway, just a reply to James question. The workflow is using DNGs, which are produced automatically by eXposure, may be apply some parameters in eXposure (or not), which is instant, re-name (which is instant), and then drag and drop thos DNGs into any DNG compatible application (LR, ACR, Aperture, Raw Developer, C1, etc ....).

So I don't see how it can be any faster than this.

Quote

Btw. to the best of my knowledge, Sinar even garantees a 10 years availability on spare parts, talk about a piece of mind solution.

Georg Baumann
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, so it is.

Best regards,
Thierry

BJNY · « **Reply #34 on:** June 06, 2008, 10:23:06 pm »

CaptureOne processed an eMotion75lv DNG to 8-bit TIF in 15 seconds
MacPro 3GHz x8 with 10GB RAM

eronald · « **Reply #35 on:** June 06, 2008, 10:47:45 pm »

Quote

Yes, I have my 1ds2 shutter replaced also, but for some reason never the original 1ds that I still use.

On Canon's behalf they fixed it in a day and though out of warranty it was no charge.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200097\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey, you got a 1Ds again ? I thought you'd sold it by "mistake" . What are you using it for ?
Canon fixed mine twice too free of charge -

Edmund

thsinar · « **Reply #36 on:** June 06, 2008, 10:49:16 pm »

I have tested it with a MacPro 2 x 2,66GHz, 4GB RAM, OS 10.4.11: takes 21 seconds with C1 to export a TIF-

So it is safe to expect eXposure to do it around 16 sec with your setup. Not that bad, I suppose.

Kind regards,
Thierry

Quote

CaptureOne processed an eMotion75lv DNG to 8-bit TIF in 15 seconds
MacPro 3GHz x8 with 10GB RAM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200178\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Author Topic: Phase One 645 - first impressions (Read 14018 times)