Commercial Insurance

[dwdallam]

Thanks for all of the information.

The railroad episode was interesting. I think, since the last time I read up on National Security, in California you cannot be stopped from photographing any publically available  from public land structure, unless it says so first hand, such as military installation or some things like that. You can get questioned, but you don't have to say anything nor do you have to produce any ID or other identification.

The reason I know this is because I was at a marina last year photographing boats. There happened to be a Coast Guard cruiser docked nearby. One of the hands came off of the boat and asked me what I was shooting? I said, "Boats." Then he said, "Why are you shooting boats." I said, "Who wants to know?" He said, "Well, with national security and all it's my duty to ask you." I said, "Do you think if I were a terrorist I would tell you I was photographing boats in order to blow them up?" He said, "No, of course not?" I said, "Well, since you can't arrest me nor do I have to answer your question, what's the efficacy of this conversation?" He then proceeded to ask if I had a business card, which I thought even more silly--terrorists don't have cards for situations like this I guess. I told him I did but he didn't need to see it for the same reason I just gave. Then he asked if I lived around the area. I told him it was none of his business and if he didn't leave me alone I was calling the local police. He stopped after that.

[canmiya]

To satisfy proof on insurance, your agent will produce, at no cost, a Certificate of Liability or Property Insurance. This is generated, in the US, with an ACCORD form and it lists the agent, insured, the insurer, type and amount so coverage and the policy numbereffective dates. It will also list the additional insured, if required, as well as the interested party [the individual or company] requesting the proof of insurance and is signed by the agent.

The form is generated by the agency's computer and IS NOT HAND WRITTEN. These can either be faxed to the requester or sent via email as a pdf. We do them every day in the office I work at and they generally take about 5 - 10 minutes to generate depending on the complexity of the coverage.

Also, you, as the insured, can request that your insurer generate and send a proof of insurance to the requesing party. Merely showing your insurance policy is not proof of insurance since it does not indicate whether or not the premiums are current.

As to polices, The Hartford, with their Spectrum policy offers a very complete package including liability and property coverage. But they are not alone in offering this type of coverage. A good BOP [business owner's policy] will cover about 95% of your needs and additional riders can take care of the rest. These policies can be industry specific and are good value for your premium dollars.

Jay
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199245\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

jay,
i agree with everything you have said...but wanted to add/underscore  a few things:
different entities, city and state for example , may have very different insurance reqirements:  i recently did two shoots- one  on NYC property and the other on NY State property.  the city department responsible for the property only ask for an insurance certificate: the state department  required that they be named as an additional insured.
i'm not sure if this is true of all carriers, but with the company that underwrote my policy, the additional insured remains on your policy for the term of the policy.  so even though you may be working at a location for a day or two, the additional insured remains on your policy  until your renewal date.  you may need to check when your renewal documents come to make sure that any additionally insured entities that you have requested over the past 12 months, that you do not want carried forward are removed as their inclusion may be reflected in your premium.

[Jay Kaplan]

Nearly everything about insurance varies by state and company. Coverage, policy provisions and premiums to name but a few. Also, believe it or not, the size and style of the type on the application can vary.

Property and Casualty insurance is fairly well standarized as to applications but some policy provisons vary from state to state and company to company.

It is always in your own best interest to find a good independent insurance agent from whom to purchase your coverage. As for referrals from your peers. If they are satisfied with the service from their agent he or she should also be able to do the same job for you and your needs. Association insurance is fine, but it may or may not fully satisfy your needs or special situation and it may or may not comply with your state's insurance regulations.

Price alone should not be the determining factor and your agent can explain the differences in policies and types of coverage.

The only thing consistent with property and casualty insurance is recurring claims as opposed to life insurance which has no recurring claims.

[Hank]

Thanks for all of the information.

The railroad episode was interesting. I think, since the last time I read up on National Security, in California you cannot be stopped from photographing any publically available  from public land structure, unless it says so first hand, such as military installation or some things like that. You can get questioned, but you don't have to say anything nor do you have to produce any ID or other identification.

The reason I know this is because I was at a marina last year photographing boats. There happened to be a Coast Guard cruiser docked nearby. One of the hands came off of the boat and asked me what I was shooting? I said, "Boats." Then he said, "Why are you shooting boats." I said, "Who wants to know?" He said, "Well, with national security and all it's my duty to ask you." I said, "Do you think if I were a terrorist I would tell you I was photographing boats in order to blow them up?" He said, "No, of course not?" I said, "Well, since you can't arrest me nor do I have to answer your question, what's the efficacy of this conversation?" He then proceeded to ask if I had a business card, which I thought even more silly--terrorists don't have cards for situations like this I guess. I told him I did but he didn't need to see it for the same reason I just gave. Then he asked if I lived around the area. I told him it was none of his business and if he didn't leave me alone I was calling the local police. He stopped after that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199334\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I handled it in a lot more friendly and forthright manner than the incident you describe and it really wasn't a problem since the train was a charter.  Since it was an unusual circumstance in the first place, my claim that I was on contract was believed.  And in fact I was happy to pass on business cards in a friendly manner to potential future customers or their friends and relatives.  The problem for me was that I was hopscotching in front of the train to pre-selected locations for scenics featuring the train while my wife was on board shooting the festivities and ceremonies there.  The 10 minute or so delay put me too far behind to catch up and get the last two scheduled locations before it moved into terrain not accessible by road.

On the variabilities from state to state and client to client, that's what prior contact is all about.  In our experience, the more experience a client has had with insurance claims, the more specific they become in the requirements for your own coverage.  And the higher up the chain of command you have go, the more likely it's going to take weeks or months to negotiate terms.  Make your contacts early, and pray that the person you're talking to has clear instructions and authority for on-the-spot decisions.

[dwdallam]

jay,
i agree with everything you have said...but wanted to add/underscore  a few things:
different entities, city and state for example , may have very different insurance reqirements:  i recently did two shoots- one  on NYC property and the other on NY State property.  the city department responsible for the property only ask for an insurance certificate: the state department  required that they be named as an additional insured.
i'm not sure if this is true of all carriers, but with the company that underwrote my policy, the additional insured remains on your policy for the term of the policy.  so even though you may be working at a location for a day or two, the additional insured remains on your policy  until your renewal date.  you may need to check when your renewal documents come to make sure that any additionally insured entities that you have requested over the past 12 months, that you do not want carried forward are removed as their inclusion may be reflected in your premium.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199366\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's exactly what Cathy at TCP told me this morning. It's also 25.00 to add an entity like the state also. Pretty cool.

[dwdallam]

I handled it in a lot more friendly and forthright manner than the incident you describe and it really wasn't a problem since the train was a charter.  Since it was an unusual circumstance in the first place, my claim that I was on contract was believed.  And in fact I was happy to pass on business cards in a friendly manner to potential future customers or their friends and relatives.  The problem for me was that I was hopscotching in front of the train to pre-selected locations for scenics featuring the train while my wife was on board shooting the festivities and ceremonies there.  The 10 minute or so delay put me too far behind to catch up and get the last two scheduled locations before it moved into terrain not accessible by road.

On the variabilities from state to state and client to client, that's what prior contact is all about.  In our experience, the more experience a client has had with insurance claims, the more specific they become in the requirements for your own coverage.  And the higher up the chain of command you have go, the more likely it's going to take weeks or months to negotiate terms.  Make your contacts early, and pray that the person you're talking to has clear instructions and authority for on-the-spot decisions.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed, and I wasn't in anyway meaning that you did anything wrong in dealing with the RR security personnel.

It's just been my experience that security people can't afford my prices anyway, and really they are happy with their point and shoots for recording family events, or Sears for snap and stop type images that are good quality.

In your instance, I would have been far too concerned with my big client and missing the shots, than the security personnel giving me business. For instance, I've probably gotten one or two calls from the average person from cards, and then they want to talk to you for a month before they commit to 150.00 for a short basic shoot. I understand that too because 150.00 when you make 25, 000US a year is a lot of bread.  But I put those jobs way on the back burner because they are time consumers and low payers. Most of my business has come by word of mouth from those who have some money to spend and understand the process of art or photography and it's expense.

I was just perturbed at the moronic and completely non efficacious questions being leveled at me from a fear based political system that encourages and rewards idiot thinking by fearing people into submission. It's just a principle thing with me.

Another example is when I was in Santa Monica a year ago. I was on the pier at night and pulled up to the ferries wheel on the outside of the amusement park. It was closed and I started setting up my tripod and got ready to shoot when a security guard appeared across the fence. He said, "You can't photography anything in here." I asked why and he said that everything i see was their trademark. I know a little about the laws of photography in California and trademarks, and you can;t trademark wooden slats on a floor. So I I asked to see the Trademark application for all the things in the park. He just said the same thing over again. So I I said I'm standing on public property and I can photograph anything I want. He said that the company owned the whole pier--being a real smart ass. So I said that was unfortunate because I was going to photograph the entire park and if he didn't like it he could call the police.

Now I know the laws regarding trespass and I also know the most I could get cited for is criminal trespass. I also know that no security person or employee or citizen can confiscate your gear. I also knew I'd be done hours before any LA police showed.

I've never been treated with anything but contempt in situations like these. People get from me exactly what they give, especially when I know the laws and they are ignorant.

[dwdallam]

I had a couple of quotes from independent agents using SafeCo as their source. Has anyone any experience with SafeCo?

I had three quotes. One from my local agent from SafeCo at 457 per year, about the same coverage as TCP.

TCP at 510 per year, but they can get you form and other stuff the other agents probably have no clue about.

And then from Allen Insurance out of Arizona for 250 per year. I just need the minimum liability that gets me legal and in the door of private and governmental location, such as airports--done. Then I need to cover my equipment for 15K including theft on location--done. But then there is the same print like 2 MILLION per incident, except that we only pay a total of 10, 000 for a broken toe, but only if it is smashed, not caught in a door. Geeze!

Anyway, this was a low quote from Allen Insurance from Arizona, and I would have not paid too much attention to it, except that it is HALF what the others are offering. It is also from SafeCo. It's so much lower than my local agent por TCP that it makes me leery about the coverage.