Is there anyone who knows..

[Henry Goh]

I'm trying to find out if the Aptus 65 is noisier than a P30.  Seems to me the samples I've seen from P30 @ ISO200 is clean and sharp out of the camera.  Should files from the Aptus be as clean?

[Snook]

Henry,

Perhaps you can contact Anders for an Aptus 65 200 ISO sample and Snook for the same from his P30 in content that might suit your needs. They both are active here and are the ones I think of first for those particular backs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I Will when I shoot at 200.. yet to do so far.
Can you believe that I only shot a couple of times more than 100 iso on my 1DsMII.. I a clean freak..:+}
What type of subject would you want?
I can do it next week when I am back in the studio if some one really wants.
The Phase site has some samples I think at various iso...?
Snook

[AndreNapier]

They are both very similar at ISO 200. Files are very clean and you will not see any noise in a 16x20 print. When looking at full res pixels in raw prior to processing you can see some noise which is easily removed in the  respectful softwares. At ISO 400 Phase has slight edge over Leaf but both files require work to be commercially usable. Pushing it to 800 the files are collapsing and can only be used if the intend of noise is desired for effect.
Http://AndreNapier.com

[Henry Goh]

Last night I viewed 2 files shot on an Aptus 65 and found them to be noisy.  I have seen a few P30 files and they seem clean.  I was just puzzled.  I know if I shoot @ native ISO50 or 100, both brands should be fine but at least I would hope to have clean files at ISO200?

I try to avoid noisewares even though I have used them when shooting Nikons.  Now that I have built up a Canon system as well, I keep going back to 1Ds MK III and 5D primarily because I can get clean files.  I want to next acquire my MFDB and concentrate on shooting rather than shopping.

I shoot mostly portraits and products.

[James R Russell]

Last night I viewed 2 files shot on an Aptus 65 and found them to be noisy.  I have seen a few P30 files and they seem clean.  I was just puzzled.  I know if I shoot @ native ISO50 or 100, both brands should be fine but at least I would hope to have clean files at ISO200?

I try to avoid noisewares even though I have used them when shooting Nikons.  Now that I have built up a Canon system as well, I keep going back to 1Ds MK III and 5D primarily because I can get clean files.  I want to next acquire my MFDB and concentrate on shooting rather than shopping.

I shoot mostly portraits and products.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194792\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As Andre says, in a commercial scene, 800 iso on a p-30+ is somewhat questionable, but first remember that 90% of what you and an AD sees at 100% view on an contrasty (or even non contrasty) computer lcd will not print in any form of proof or ligthographic printing where the noise will look anything as harsh as on screen.

In fact if our intended goal was/is film, there are few professional digital cameras that won't out perform 400 iso and up film in any format. People may like random grainy noise of film more than they like the noise in a digital file, but the detail loss in high iso film is very much there.

A medium to low key lighting sceanrio will also produce a lot more noise than an open high key scene at any iso.  In fact I have no issue shooting even the p21+ at 800 iso in high key, though low key it gets rough.

Now for the record, I've shot side by side (got help me for saying I have side by side shots) of the Canon 1ds2 and the p30+ and quite honestly there is little difference in the noise or the amount of detail that is acheived*, in fact I might think that the P30+ comes out a little better, but if high iso is your goal, nothing I've seen except the D3 really makes smooth high iso imagery in anything but overlit or high key situations.

Personally, I think there is way too much worry about noise in a digital image.

Film was pretty messy, beautiful but messy.

JR

[Henry Goh]

I'm not expecting my future MFDB to do well from ISO 400 upwards.  I have every intention to use it at ISO 50-200.  Anything higher would mean using my 1Ds MK III.

I also know how files look like in 4-color printing as well as ultrachromes.

I'm only puzzled that at ISO 200 files should look so noisy.  Cleaning up would mean some loss of shadow details.  Just want to check if there is indeed a difference between brands, perhaps due to their electronics more than anything else.

[James R Russell]

I'm not expecting my future MFDB to do well from ISO 400 upwards.  I have every intention to use it at ISO 50-200.  Anything higher would mean using my 1Ds MK III.

I also know how files look like in 4-color printing as well as ultrachromes.

I'm only puzzled that at ISO 200 files should look so noisy.  Cleaning up would mean some loss of shadow details.  Just want to check if there is indeed a difference between brands, perhaps due to their electronics more than anything else.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194800\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know about the a65 but 200 iso files on the p30+ on small or large compression have virtually no noise to speak of unless they are underexposed or shot with a light source way below 3200 kelvin.

JR

[Henry Goh]

I don't know about the a65 but 200 iso files on the p30+ on small or large compression have virtually no noise to speak of unless they are underexposed or shot with a light source way below 3200 kelvin.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194801\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ah.. thanks.  That is one up for P30+

[Dustbak]

Henry,

I have not used the A65 but the A17. About noisy ISO200 I found out that there is a big differences with the Aptus files when processed with different converters.

Did you process the files with Leaf Capture or ACR (Lightroom)?

LC used to be a lot cleaner and less noisy than other converters. (I haven't used Leaf for over a year now so don't dare to make a really hard statement anymore about the noise difference between LC & the rest)

[Henry Goh]

Henry,

I have not used the A65 but the A17. About noisy ISO200 I found out that there is a big differences with the Aptus files when processed with different converters.

Did you process the files with Leaf Capture or ACR (Lightroom)?

LC used to be a lot cleaner and less noisy than other converters. (I haven't used Leaf for over a year now so don't dare to make a really hard statement anymore about the noise difference between LC & the rest)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194809\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Good point.  I will check with LC.

[BJNY]

Now for the record, I've shot side by side (got help me for saying I have side by side shots) of the Canon 1ds2 and the p30+ and quite honestly there is little difference in the noise or the amount of detail that is acheived*, in fact I might think that the P30+ comes out a little better, but if high iso is your goal, nothing I've seen except the D3 really makes smooth high iso imagery in anything but overlit or high key situations.

Check out the Sinarback eMotion75LV's ISO 800 samples posted at this thread,
in particular one poster who pushed the DNG files to ISO 6400.
I'm a little more than surprised at what Sinar has achieved,
usually reluctant to use ANY digital back even at ISO 200.

[Henry Goh]

Check out the Sinarback eMotion75LV's ISO 800 samples posted at this thread,
in particular one poster who pushed the DNG files to ISO 6400.
I'm a little more than surprised at what Sinar has achieved,
usually reluctant to use ANY digital back even at ISO 200.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you but I'm only interested in Phaseone, Leaf and perhaps Hasselblad.  Nothing else.

[woof75]

Thank you but I'm only interested in Phaseone, Leaf and perhaps Hasselblad.  Nothing else.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194830\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ISO 200 on a P21 (not the plus back) is super clean, noise is no issue at all, I use it as my standard base ISO for everything.

[Henry Goh]

ISO 200 on a P21 (not the plus back) is super clean, noise is no issue at all, I use it as my standard base ISO for everything.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is nice to know.  I'll check that out.  Thank you.

[Mitchell Baum]

Henry,

I'm in the same boat: "I want to next acquire my MFDB and concentrate on shooting rather than shopping."

I'm curious why you aren't considering Sinar?  Not that I think you should. Just wondering if I should or shouldn't.

In the 35 mm format world, I have a fairly good idea how cameras compare. In MFDB and cameras, I'm having a difficult time figuring out strengths and weaknesses of the players.

Best,

Mitchell

[Henry Goh]

Henry,

I'm in the same boat: "I want to next acquire my MFDB and concentrate on shooting rather than shopping."

I'm curious why you aren't considering Sinar?  Not that I think you should. Just wondering if I should or shouldn't.

In the 35 mm format world, I have a fairly good idea how cameras compare. In MFDB and cameras, I'm having a difficult time figuring out strengths and weaknesses of the players.

Best,

Mitchell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194840\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mitchell,

Long time ago when I started out in business, someone taught me this: people only do business with the people they like.  So far I like Phase and Leaf and have good feelings owning Hasselblads.  The rest don't impress me in one way or another.

Henry

[samuel_js]

I think Phase One (P21 and P30) has the edge at high ISO.
This is a P21 at ISO 800:

[pprdigital]

The microlenses on the P21 and P30 (and H3DII-31) will give them the edge in ISO performance. If that were the only criteria, then those products would be at the top of the list.

That said, the Aptus 65 begins its ISO range at 50 (a benefit to some), still offers usable performance at most of its extended ISO range, 1/3 second faster shooting speed, the best non-hardware aided Live Video, and the large and extremely functional and intuitive LCD touch screen. Not to mention compatibility with at least 7 raw conversion programs.

It's well worth considering.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[thsinar]

speaking about ISO 800, here a sample I have taken at this setting with the new eMotion 75 LV:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1683&page=6

The link leads to the ACR corrected image: see also the raw image at the beginning of the thread.

Thierry

[Henry Goh]

The microlenses on the P21 and P30 (and H3DII-31) will give them the edge in ISO performance. If that were the only criteria, then those products would be at the top of the list.

That said, the Aptus 65 begins its ISO range at 50 (a benefit to some), still offers usable performance at most of its extended ISO range, 1/3 second faster shooting speed, the best non-hardware aided Live Video, and the large and extremely functional and intuitive LCD touch screen. Not to mention compatibility with at least 7 raw conversion programs.

It's well worth considering.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194920\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Steve and the fact that you are one very helpful dealer certainly warrants a closer look at the Aptus.