A forum proposal

[woof75]

How about if Michael set up a new forum category where only working pros could post, everyone could read but only pros could post in that section. I'm not comfortable with my real name being on a public forum but maybe to get access to the forum you could email Michael with your credentials and he could decide if he wants to allow you to join the pro forum? Thereby you create a place where working pros get to comfortably chat with each other and not get bogged down which would attract pros and keep the ones here that are already here. This would benefit them and everyone else that gets to read the pro forum. Am I missing something, this seems like a good idea to me, Michael?

[SecondFocus]

To partially quote what I said in another thread....

"I would welcome a breakout forum within these forums for professionals only. I would be pleased to pay a fee, I would only ask that it be limited. People would have to have their real name and info verified, perhaps a website or photo review and ultimately even a referral from an existing member requirement. This has worked over at SportsShooter and the quality and relationships among the membership is superb."

Thanks!

[ixpressraf]

How would you avoid others to register as a pro and start posting those never ending stupid discussions from start agin? i think it would be better to ignore those people and focus on real issues. It is not our task to make someone buy into a MFDB system. Stop answering 35mm/MF posts on this forum would simply solve the "problem" I as a working pro am not interested in the opinin from people who do not work daily on a professional base and for sure not in those weening about 35mm/MF stuff.
Just ignore those discussions and hopefully they will go somewhere else.    

[Dustbak]

Agreed.

Furthermore. What makes a pro a pro? 10K a year, 100K a year or more? Affiliation with a known pro-organization?

Besides that, I don't really like the elitist smell or attitude. The fun, strength of the Net is also its achillesheel being open for everyone. This includes people that some don't like (and maybe vice versa), various kinds of people also makes it interesting.

[jing q]

Agreed.

Furthermore. What makes a pro a pro? 10K a year, 100K a year or more? Affiliation with a known pro-organization?

Besides that, I don't really like the elitist smell or attitude. The fun, strength of the Net is also its achillesheel being open for everyone. This includes people that some don't like (and maybe vice versa), various kinds of people also makes it interesting.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How about a flagging system?
You allow the flagging of certain threads , enough flags from different members and the thread shuts down

[SecondFocus]

The selection would be made first by the person supplying some basic information including a real name. A website or submitted work would be required and a minimal quality would need to be established. A fee would be paid. Whether it is called "Pro" or "Membership" or whatever makes no difference. But it does work.

[EricWHiss]

Is the forum really that bad?  How about just ignoring the trolls?  I had a hard time not getting caught up in it until I found the ignore feature.  Only hit that button 2 or 3 times but it cleared out like 10,000 posts that were distracting.

[SecondFocus]

That is truly a good point too. It is also very funny how you clicked it a few times and cleared out that much. Probably could save some bandwidth and storage just by banning a few people

Is the forum really that bad?  How about just ignoring the trolls?  I had a hard time not getting caught up in it until I found the ignore feature.  Only hit that button 2 or 3 times but it cleared out like 10,000 posts that were distracting.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[woof75]

I'm not sure why we would need a fee. It would be nice if we could just ignore the 35mm v MF debates but human nature isn't like that as can be seen in the 14 page recent discussion. How we would decide who is a pro? We wouldn't, Michael would, you would need to upgrade your membership and michael would decide who he figured counting as a working pro and that would be that, it's fairly obvious to be honest. I think there would be more good members here if we had a section that only pros could post in. I don't want this forum going the way of dpreview, it's too valuable.

[SecondFocus]

Again, don't get carried away with the word pro. It is only a matter of meeting a few requirements. And that is enough to keep it "better"

[BJNY]

Sounds complicated.
Better for each of us to use the "Ignore" function in our control panel if someone's writings or images are objectionable.

[andybuk99]

Yes, I think the ignore option would be better.

As for what is pro, and I don't mean to start a discussion on this ;-)

I always thought that a professional photographer was someone that earnt their living or at least the majority of it from the art form.

[samuel_js]

Yes, I think the ignore option would be better.

As for what is pro, and I don't mean to start a discussion on this ;-)

I always thought that a professional photographer was someone that earnt their living or at least the majority of it from the art form.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As soon as you get paid for a job and pay taxes, vat etc...you're doing a professional service. There's a word for people that work partially and it's "partial professional". A partial professional is not the same as an advanced amateur. And an advanced amateur is obviously not an "aficcionado".
In my opinion, an advanced amateur could easily have the same experience and knowledge as a  full time working pro.
A closed forum could leave out a lot of knowledge.
But there's other aspects: What about people that work with imaging but not with a camera? Dealer?  People working for different companies that aren't actually photographers?

I don't know, not a good idea I think ...

[woof75]

Yes, I think the ignore option would be better.

As for what is pro, and I don't mean to start a discussion on this ;-)

I always thought that a professional photographer was someone that earnt their living or at least the majority of it from the art form.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Err, yes that is the definition. I do think that working all day every day with images and working with talented creatives in the field and being constantly judged by these people does lend one a certain extra bit of knowledge on the subject of imagery and the tools used to create it. Not to say that all pros are great, of course not, there are many levels within this category but it does imply a certain level has been reached.

[michael]

I'm not in favour of a "pro" section with membership requirements. I believe that the Net is a place for learning and exchange. I've also seen sites that have instituted such systems and they have eventually faded away or become elitist and insular.

A pay service is also not of interest to me. My videos are a commercial product which I expect to be paid for, but the site itself is done for its own sake and I wouldn't want to commercialize it.

Michael

[EricWHiss]

That is truly a good point too. It is also very funny how you clicked it a few times and cleared out that much. Probably could save some bandwidth and storage just by banning a few people
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193916\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yeah funny how it is that some of the most distracting (too me personally) are the most prolific - a couple of them have like 4 or 5 thousand posts and usually these are excessively verbose posts too  - Whoa! Think how much time that is just to write all those posts!


Michael,
I've also gotten a lot out of your forums and website - not just learning but also from the community.  It's amazing how this forum brings together people from all around the world.  
Thanks!
Eric

[James R Russell]

Yeah funny how it is that some of the most distracting (too me personally) are the most prolific - a couple of them have like 4 or 5 thousand posts and usually these are excessively verbose posts too  - Whoa! Think how much time that is just to write all those posts!
Michael,
I've also gotten a lot out of your forums and website - not just learning but also from the community.  It's amazing how this forum brings together people from all around the world. 
Thanks!
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would not like a pro only forum, though honestly I would like more relevant conversation and a lot less of the same questions.

Regardless whatever I want is not relevant as this isn't my house, it's Michael's.

Still, there is a lot of good thought and inspiration that comes from all areas of photography and when you step back and think about it, who is more enthused or even pure about photography than the artist that does it only for the love of the photograph?

It's easy as a professional to get the nose in the air attitude, but honestly even on very large budget projects some of the most inspiring comments or suggestions comes from the "non" creative side of the room.  (personally I don't believe there is a non creative side of the room).

Whenever I speak to a school, the first thing I ask is why do you want to be a photographer and what do you want to photograph.  Usually when it gets down to the person that says "weddings/portraits" there is a snicker from the other students, but when you think about it, nothing lasts longer than a personal portrait or hopefully a wedding album (well at least 50% of the wedding albums).

We can all brag about seeing our name in print, or our work in times square but in reality those images usually end up in the bottom of the birdcage in 60 days.

It's the photos that hang on walls and in bookshelves that last.


JR

[fnagy]

Yeah funny how it is that some of the most distracting (too me personally) are the most prolific - a couple of them have like 4 or 5 thousand posts and usually these are excessively verbose posts too  - Whoa! Think how much time that is just to write all those posts!
Michael,
I've also gotten a lot out of your forums and website - not just learning but also from the community.  It's amazing how this forum brings together people from all around the world. 
Thanks!
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James,

Good points, I do not shot weddings (I promised myself a long time ago that if I considered doing one, I would first go see my Proctologist every day- full exam!, for a whole month).

I respect those that do it and do it well for whatever reason.  It's the wannabes and self professed "pros" that I will dis! I have had several offers of shooting a "family gatherings" as I do shoot events, and in disguise was another wedding???  The images and videos were crap from their original "event"!  To be honest they got what they paid for, doing that on the skids just to save a few bits of coin for some other useless trivial things?

But I degres, a pro only forum would limit the creative process.

If one does not want to follow a thread, then ignore, there's always crap out there, use your filter and get on with it.

[dilip]

I've also gotten a lot out of your forums and website - not just learning but also from the community.  It's amazing how this forum brings together people from all around the world. 
Thanks!
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As a distinct amateur, I'd worry that certain threads started by the non-pros wouldn't get the same depth of skill in answers.  The segmentation could end up leading to a situation where the non-pro threads are neglected by anyone other than those who do not have the answers.  There are plenty of other places where that's what we get. I'd like to think that that would somehow diminish LL in general.

[Misirlou]

I understand the frustration with some posters, but I'd have to vote against the "pro" section too.

Defining who would be allowed would get difficult, or at best, time consuming. Consider my situation. For a long time, I made my living via "photography," but it involved imaging things from space. Certainly "professional" but probably irrelevent to most commercial photographers. I also do landscape work, but I've sold very little of it, and don't plan to go that route in the near future. Guess that makes me an "amateur," only one who's been doing serious digital imaging longer than the overwhelming majority of "pros."

A lot of my interest in the forum has been in picking up techniques and new ways of attacking the process. A lot of my favorite gleanings have come from the amateurs.

The title of Michael's site contains the word "landscape." Even so, I think most of us have no quarrel at all with the portrait specialists that frequent the group, and who provide a lot of the images in the "recent works" threads, right?