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Author Topic: small and light MF digital advice?  (Read 8098 times)

peegeenyc

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small and light MF digital advice?
« on: May 03, 2008, 09:06:54 am »

I own both 1Ds3 and Contax 645 P45+ caneras, BUT half the time I travel for myself, or am out and about, I never bother to take either with me. This is becoming ridiculous now, and I have to find some way to make it work.

With film, for years I had Plaubel 670 cameras, which folded up to the size of a paperback book, but popped out to use a decent Nikon 80mm lens for on-the-hoof 6x7cm images. Far better than an MF DSLR Contax or Rollei or Blad for such casual take it everywhere use.

now with digital there is little choice, despite paying tens of thousands of $ more.
I look at the Alpa TC, but... no rangefinder is a put off, and like so many of these types of camera, is really designed for wide angle work. Like Cambo etc. where I'd rather have standard focal lengths, and focusing indication.

anyone got fresh ideas? I'm missing some of the joy and spontaneity of photography because of these burdensome pro cameras. Shall I just wait for a 5D2 and use that, though leaving my relatively small Phase digital back at home while do that seem somehow silly...
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elitegroup

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small and light MF digital advice?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2008, 09:18:20 am »

Quote
I own both 1Ds3 and Contax 645 P45+ caneras, BUT half the time I travel for myself, or am out and about, I never bother to take either with me. This is becoming ridiculous now, and I have to find some way to make it work.

With film, for years I had Plaubel 670 cameras, which folded up to the size of a paperback book, but popped out to use a decent Nikon 80mm lens for on-the-hoof 6x7cm images. Far better than an MF DSLR Contax or Rollei or Blad for such casual take it everywhere use.

now with digital there is little choice, despite paying tens of thousands of $ more.
I look at the Alpa TC, but... no rangefinder is a put off, and like so many of these types of camera, is really designed for wide angle work. Like Cambo etc. where I'd rather have standard focal lengths, and focusing indication.

anyone got fresh ideas? I'm missing some of the joy and spontaneity of photography because of these burdensome pro cameras. Shall I just wait for a 5D2 and use that, though leaving my relatively small Phase digital back at home while do that seem somehow silly...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do you need to buy a third camera ?? 5DII ?? why can't you make do with the 1Ds MK III as your walk around cam ?? is it to heavy, cumbersome for you ?? it can't be any heavier than Contax 645 P45+ combo ?

Sorry I don't get it  
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Dustbak

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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2008, 09:27:35 am »

Why wait for the 5D2 if you can have a 5D for next to nothing at the moment? I am a 25years Nikon user, very happy with my current D300 but at the prices the 5D is currently going I am very tempted to get one

These 'small' cameras I do take with me, my H and Digiflex I don't. At least not that quickly.
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MichaelEzra

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small and light MF digital advice?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2008, 01:54:55 pm »

Mamiya ZD camera
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Ignatz_Mouse

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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2008, 01:57:46 pm »

I think the obvious choice would be a Leica M8. Of course is not a MFDB, not even a DSLR, but there's no camera with this size that can offer its image quality.
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James R Russell

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small and light MF digital advice?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 02:18:41 pm »

Quote
I think the obvious choice would be a Leica M8. Of course is not a MFDB, not even a DSLR, but there's no camera with this size that can offer its image quality.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The M8 has it's positives and in some ways works much like a medium format back in that it is not a camera that does everything, but what it does it does well.

It's won't produced 6000 ppi images of a model's eyelashes from 200 yards, but it will force you into seeing and working in a different manner.  Sometimes slower, sometimes, fast, but it is an involving camera.

I pretty much keep the 28mm on the camera and actually use it for things that I would never think of using even a moderate wide angle for.

This session was shot mostly medium format and I would never think of shooting a "beauty" image with a wide angle, though with the m-8 it somehow worked.

[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/m/image/beauty2bg.jpg]http://www.russellrutherford.com/m/image/beauty2bg.jpg[/url]

the M-8 is not an all around camera.  It won't go to 640 iso without noise, and underexposed a lot of noise, though it also will not look mushy or soft, if focused it's sharp, crisp and has a great contrast range.

When I start a session we have tables of cameras, medium format, 35mm, and it looks somewhat impressive, but nothing draws the type of response from a subject as pulling out that little camera.

It seems relaxed, easy and most of all intimate.

I think it's a great camera for shooting people and one that involves the subject without intimidating.

I must admit, never coming from a rangefinder, it took me a long time to get used to the focus and the actually functionality of the camera but now it is second nature and something that I always am glad to just throw over a shoulder before I leave my door.

The downside is the metering is just bloody awful unless all the conditions are right, but then again I've never used a meter for anything other than a get close type of look.

the upside is it's a Leica true and genuine and it has a all that lecia dna built in.  This last statement probably won't make sense and in a technical side by side comparision won't mean a lot of pixel pushers, but if you just want to feel good about what your shooting give one a try.

I find it very special.

[attachment=6399:attachment]
undefined

JR
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 02:26:47 pm by James R Russell »
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clawery

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small and light MF digital advice?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2008, 02:35:22 pm »

Alpa makes a few good options and the 12 TC (Travel Compact) may fit you bill.

http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products...&detailpage=135

Cambo also makes the WDC, but I'm not sure if it come is a Contax mount  or not.  I'll contact them to find out.

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rainer_v

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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2008, 03:50:03 pm »

... and i like to carry around my contax 645 with wlf, the 55mm lens and an e75 back. its a small package and i love it. without the prism the 645 loose some hundred gramms and the 55mm lens is much smaller as the 45mm for its aperture for 3,5. shutter speeds till 1/30 are sharp and finally allows the new electronic in the sinar back real iso800 with moderate noise.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 03:50:19 pm by rainer_v »
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Ignatz_Mouse

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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2008, 05:25:21 pm »

Quote
I think it's a great camera for shooting people and one that involves the subject without intimidating.

This is what it's supposed the M was made for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcm35m50Y
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 05:26:17 pm by Ignatz_Mouse »
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James R Russell

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small and light MF digital advice?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 12:29:51 pm »

Quote
This is what it's supposed the M was made for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcm35m50Y
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It's tradition to think of a Leica for street and PJ work and obviously that seems to be the intended goal.

Then again it's a camera that in almost any situation changes how the subject reacts.  It's not intimidating, it's small, it has to be focused which does take some degree of throught it's not extrememly fast per frame, the lenses are sharp and contrasty and all this combination produces something special and intimate.

It's funny, I have a 90, 50, 35, 28 and never use anything but the 28.  In fact I don't even carry the other lenses anymore, for me it just seems like a forced waste of time to try to shoot with a long lens on a camera that requires you to get close to the subject and be part of the actual moment.

Even in set up scenarios it disarms the subject.

[attachment=6415:attachment]

Though admitedly the m8 is usually used for this

[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/paris_production/]http://www.russellrutherford.com/paris_production/[/url]

It's interesting that there are threads that are running 1,700 deep comparing the pixel quality of one system to another, even down to the jpeg compression, which absolutley has nothing to do with why or how anyone would use a camera.

In my view, to really explore photography is to sometimes put the wrong camera in the wrong situations and see what shakes loose.

It's always interesting.

JR
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Dustbak

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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 12:41:36 pm »

Talking about disarming people. I liked to do street work with the 503 and DB. People for some reason find the 'big' black box something from another era and people that use it are obviously weird but harmless

I sold the 503 but am thinking about getting another one to do just that again, standing in the middle of a busy street and have the people walk up to me and shoot them.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 01:47:18 pm by Dustbak »
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eronald

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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2008, 12:58:19 pm »

Quote
The M8 has it's positives and in some ways works much like a medium format back in that it is not a camera that does everything, but what it does it does well.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you use a Leica you need a backup. I've gone through body failure after body failure. The old Leica DNA was one of complete reliability, the new one is a temperamental primadonna. Apart from totally dead cameras, there are lockups, accidental battery discharges, you name it. James of course has ample backup

Edmund
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shutay

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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 11:21:10 pm »

Getting back to MFDB + light and small...

One thing that gets me with the options in MFDB is that I have looked at the Silvestri Flexicam more for studio and outdoor tripod work, but then I figured that I would also like to have something really compact, but still use the MFDB and those fantastic APO Digital lenses from the Silvestri... so maybe add an Alpa TC to that, except that the Silvestri takes it's own Silvestri bayonet mount and the Alpa needs it's own helical focus mount. So sharing the same lens between 2 systems appears to be quite impractical, yet I can't afford to get 2 of every lens!  

What's the solution? Just forget about those 2 systems and go buy a Mamiya AFD II instead???
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 11:24:08 pm by shutay »
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SecondFocus

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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2008, 11:44:48 pm »

Thank you! Well said and great information. It is so much more valuable to get off those wordy pixel peeping comments and actually discuss photography, taking photos and really using cameras to actually take pictures.

Quote
It's interesting that there are threads that are running 1,700 deep comparing the pixel quality of one system to another, even down to the jpeg compression, which absolutley has nothing to do with why or how anyone would use a camera.

In my view, to really explore photography is to sometimes put the wrong camera in the wrong situations and see what shakes loose.

It's always interesting.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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jing q

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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2008, 01:03:36 am »

Quote
Getting back to MFDB + light and small...

One thing that gets me with the options in MFDB is that I have looked at the Silvestri Flexicam more for studio and outdoor tripod work, but then I figured that I would also like to have something really compact, but still use the MFDB and those fantastic APO Digital lenses from the Silvestri... so maybe add an Alpa TC to that, except that the Silvestri takes it's own Silvestri bayonet mount and the Alpa needs it's own helical focus mount. So sharing the same lens between 2 systems appears to be quite impractical, yet I can't afford to get 2 of every lens!   

What's the solution? Just forget about those 2 systems and go buy a Mamiya AFD II instead???
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193507\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

there is a solution actually
try the Silvestri Bicam with a fixed lensboard+helical mount setup.
You can get the lenses mounted in a helicoid which is then attached on the appropriate bayonet,and then attached onto the proper lensboard

I was interested in this option myself but didn't have the time to try to decipher what lensboard and what bayonet goes with what lens.

When you want to use the Silvestri as a bellows camera you just attach it to the Flexi Maxi bellows or the Flexi Bellows. No need to change mounts, as the bayonet mount on the lensboard is the same mount as the bellows attachment
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Gigi

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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2008, 09:51:14 am »

what about an Alpa SWA and digital back? One camera.
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Geoff

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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2008, 10:26:38 am »

If 35mm - M_ (7 if film ok, 8 if not). The Ms are wonderful to use. I also sued an M7 loaner for some time it just wanted to carry it everywhere.

if MF film ok - what of the Mamiya M7II?
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Let Biogons be Biogons

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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2008, 10:35:38 am »

If you need focus indication, then you are limited to Mamiya 7II, or the Fuji rangefinders (645, 6x7 and 6x9)

If you need to change lenses, I think you are stuck with the Mamiya 7II -- which by the way is a fine camera capable of stunning image quality.  IMHO, DSLR's have yet to match it.

Actually is you've gots buckets of cash for the body and lenses, take a look at the Arca-Swiss R-Line with an electronic viewfinder/focusing aid.  Takes Schneider/Rodenstock digital lenses.  Very nice and very erxpensive (US$5-6K for the body and you know how much the lenses are).
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bryanyc

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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2008, 02:19:41 pm »

In medium format there is really no rangefinder option - and for compactness the Leica M8 or (horrors) the G9 would do fine.

If you really want to use the phase back you can try the Alpa TC (or SWA) and get one of those old fashioned distance finders.  Combine it with a very small Voightlander light meter on a Voightlander double cold shoe on one side of the camera, a Voightlander finder for your lens and away you go (be sure to leave $7,000 on the table though)!
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clawery

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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2008, 09:28:42 am »

Cambo also makes the WDC, but I'm not sure if it come is a Contax mount  or not.  I'll contact them to find out.

Chris Lawery
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193320\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

Sorry for the delay in the reply, but I just got a response from Cambo.  The Cambo WDC (WideCompact) does come in a Contax mount.

Chris Lawery
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Capture Integration
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