Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Phase P21 on architectural camera  (Read 5082 times)

Harold Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« on: May 01, 2008, 08:57:59 pm »

Like many of you no doubt, I used a Mamiya RZ 67 as my workhorse for many years, along with a Sinar with sheet and roll film for architectural jobs. In late 2004 I got a 1DS11, and the other cameras have gathered dust except for occasional personal work.

I had an AD job a while ago where I rented a 39MP setup for final output as 4x6 ft posters. I made an 8x10 portfolio print from one of the shots and was amazed at the depth and beautiful tonality, even at that small size. I showed my portfolio at a local university, and the person interviewing me ( someone who sees a lot less photography than an art director, for instance ) asked whether this photo had been shot on 4x5, it was that obvious.

While I don't need the resolution, expense or file storage of a 39MP system, the P21 back has become quite reasonable. I do a lot of industrial, people, and architectural photography (www.haroldclark.com), and while the Canon would still be the ticket for a lot of things, I would much prefer to use a DB when it suits the assignment. The ability to use the P21 on a shift camera would be important.

Does anybody have experience with the P21 on an architectural camera? I know the P30 is not recommended, but the P21 apparently is. I am also aware of the slightly smaller sensor compared to the P25 back, but would welcome any info from someone who has used this combination.
Logged

pixjohn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 716
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 11:08:35 pm »

The aptus 65 would be a good back to use. I use an aptus 75 and with the newest software I have the gain filter built in to help correct lens falloff with wider lenses. I have no clue on the phase and don't think they have any lens falloff correction in the software. The Aptus 75 files look much nicer then any of the 4x5 I use to shoot.


Quote
If I can piggyback on this topic, I'd like to add the same question about the Aptus 65.  (I gather it has no microlenses)  I'm interested in it's potential for more shift movements on 24/28mm lenses.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 11:09:53 pm by pixjohn »
Logged

Jason F

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2008, 11:25:32 pm »

Harold-

I don't have an answer for you regarding the P21 and architecture... sorry!

BUT, I did have the same thing happen to me when I first started showing my new book last fall. I had an Art Director specifically ask me what camera I'd used for a few of the images because he was so impressed with the tones and richness, etc.... I told him MFDB and he was impressed.

Then, about 2 months ago I had the same thing happen. I had a salesman from LiveBooks who'd seen my website ask me what percentage of my shooting was done with a MFDB (and then, which one).


So I guess if you see a lot of photography, it can be noticeable. Obviously not to all, but to some there is a clear visual difference. (Which is good and I like that distinction).
Logged

clawery

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 512
    • http://www.captureintegration.com  / www.chrislawery.com
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 01:47:01 pm »

Logged

clawery

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 512
    • http://www.captureintegration.com  / www.chrislawery.com
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2008, 03:54:51 pm »

I just wanted to add that it is physically possible to shoot with the P21 or P21+ on a technical camera like the Cambo Wide DS, but not optimal.  The P25/P25+ and the P45/P45+ will produce less color cast and fall off on the edges than the P21/P21+ would.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
Logged

Harold Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 10:13:21 pm »

Quote
I just wanted to add that it is physically possible to shoot with the P21 or P21+ on a technical camera like the Cambo Wide DS, but not optimal.  The P25/P25+ and the P45/P45+ will produce less color cast and fall off on the edges than the P21/P21+ would.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell 
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193179\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Chris,
Thanks for this helpful information. I presume then that using the P21 on an architectural camera would require considerable post production to correct the image. Are the micro lenses used to boost ISO performance?
Logged

Streetwise

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
    • DavidAnderson.tv
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2008, 07:01:03 am »

Quote
If I can piggyback on this topic, I'd like to add the same question about the Aptus 65.  (I gather it has no microlenses)  I'm interested in it's potential for more shift movements on 24/28mm lenses.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I shoot with the Aptus65 with the CamboWide DS with great results. Just make sure that the 24/28 lens that you use is one that has a larger image circle (Rodenstock). Some of them don't have as large a circle (Schneider). I'm usually able to shift R/L about 5-6mm each way with no noticeable falloff. I've gone 10mm before, but I wouldn't recommend it. Also, with the sensor size, the lens factor is .79 when comparing to traditional 35mm focal lengths. So a 28mm lens is equivalent to 22mm on a 35mm full frame camera.

I usually shoot without the center filter and do my gain corrections with the software. It works well.

Dave
Logged

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2008, 08:22:46 am »

Quote from: clawery,May 2 2008, 05:47 PM
Does anybody have experience with the P21 on an architectural camera? I know the P30 is not recommended, but the P21 apparently is. I am also aware of the slightly smaller sensor compared to the P25 back, but would welcome any info from someone who has used this combination.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Harold,

I would not recommend the P21 or P21+ for shooting architecture.  The P21 is built very much like the P30 and has microlenses that are not very favorable for technical cameras.  When you tilt, shift or do radical movements, the angle of light isn't as optimal as the P25 or P45.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year[/url]

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193158\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the P21 didn't have microlenses.
Logged

shutay

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
    • http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2008, 09:04:54 am »

Quote
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the P21 didn't have microlenses.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Be under no more impressions.

woof75, Harold, I'm sure Chris knows what he's talking about. Have a look here:

[a href=\"http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks/Pplusseries/Pplus/P21+.aspx]http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalb...Pplus/P21+.aspx[/url]

This is for the P21+ version, but many of the same technical specs were true of the older P21 version as well.

The P21, P30, P21+ and P30+ all have microlenses on the CCD.

The P20, P25, P45, P20+, P25+ and P45+ do NOT have microlenses.

If you want a 44x33 sensor chip with no microlens, you will need to look at the Leaf Aptus and Aptus S range.
Logged

clawery

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 512
    • http://www.captureintegration.com  / www.chrislawery.com
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2008, 09:06:46 am »

The microlenses on both the P21/P21+ and the P30/P30+ are meant to help prevent moire.
One benefit to the microlenses is that you gain +1 stop with them.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
Logged

Streetwise

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
    • DavidAnderson.tv
Phase P21 on architectural camera
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2008, 09:10:20 pm »

Quote
Thanks for the info John & Dave.  I was thinking of the Schneider 24 & Rod.HR 28.  It would be nice to get some movement with these lenses.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think you're going to get more movement with the Rod 28. It has a circle of 70mm whereas the Digitar 24 has a circle of 60mm. Maybe someone else can confirm.

Maybe [a href=\"http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/digital_lenses/digital_lenses.htm]this[/url] will help..


Dave
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 09:10:39 pm by Streetwise »
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up