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Author Topic: Phase one. Which one to buy?  (Read 9665 times)

henrikfoto

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« on: April 24, 2008, 06:11:58 pm »

I want to buy a phase one back for my Hasselblad V system.
I would like advice on which one that makes the best files.

I will use it for people photography mostly. I have been thinking of the P30+,
but like to hear if anybody knows how the files from the P30+ compares to the P25+
and the P45+?

I am unsure about how the microlenses on the P30+ effects the quality of the pixels?

Hoping for some good advice.

Henrik
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Guy Mancuso

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 09:49:32 am »

Lance Schad from Capture Integration group will be bringing a full demo kit of all the Phase backs to our workshop in San Juan http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1500
So i will get a chance to try the full line of Phase Backs on my Mamiya which i just bought the ZD. So i am looking forward to what the Phase backs have to offer and what there files look like and how they perform in the field. Hopefully when i get back i can report my findings.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 09:50:56 am by Guy Mancuso »
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Henry Goh

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 09:52:59 am »

Quote
Lance Schad from Capture Integration group will be bringing a full demo kit of all the Phase backs to our workshop in San Juan http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1500
So i will get a chance to try the full line of Phase Backs on my Mamiya which i just bought the ZD. So i am looking forward to what the Phase backs have to offer and what there files look like and how they perform in the field. Hopefully when i get back i can report my findings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you very much Guy.

Nice to see you're around still.
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clawery

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 10:07:20 am »

Quote
I want to buy a phase one back for my Hasselblad V system.
I would like advice on which one that makes the best files.

I will use it for people photography mostly. I have been thinking of the P30+,
but like to hear if anybody knows how the files from the P30+ compares to the P25+
and the P45+?

I am unsure about how the microlenses on the P30+ effects the quality of the pixels?

Hoping for some good advice.

Henrik
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I hope to have some newer tests soon, but at least this will show you the quality of the P30+.

[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/]http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/[/url]

It's hard to tell someone that one file looks better than another, but I can tell you certain backs are better suited for particular shooters.  The P25+ and the P45+ are better suited for architectural or product shooters because of their full frame ability.  The P45+ is a bit slower to shoot with because of the file size and since architectural shooters don't shoot like fashion shooters, it's fine.  The P30+ crops slightly and has a lens factor of 1.3.  

If you go to our web site you can see some of our clients and what they shoot with:

http://www.captureintegration.com/tools/ou...orite-websites/


Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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Henry Goh

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 10:22:10 am »

Chris,

Could you kindly tell us the key differences between a P25 and a P25+  Is the file significantly "different"?  Thanks.
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Kika Livno

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 10:40:06 am »

Quote
Lance Schad from Capture Integration group will be bringing a full demo kit of all the Phase backs to our workshop in San Juan http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1500
So i will get a chance to try the full line of Phase Backs on my Mamiya which i just bought the ZD. So i am looking forward to what the Phase backs have to offer and what there files look like and how they perform in the field. Hopefully when i get back i can report my findings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I couldn't believe my eyes, you only have 8 posts since 05,  

I purchased Leica M8 just because of your devotion to Leica World and some tough battles you had over the years... how could I resist, heheehe!!!

I tested ZD, and I really liked it... except PHASE is just too Simple/Works/Sweet Long Exposure  and it runs like BENZ use to!!!  

I will probably go Phase/Mamiya, even though I originally wanted Phase/H2

Nice to see you here, I hope life is treating you well  

Best
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clawery

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 11:04:16 am »

Quote
Chris,

Could you kindly tell us the key differences between a P25 and a P25+  Is the file significantly "different"?  Thanks.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Henry,

Since the P25 was the first P back introduced, it will have the most improvements of all of the new P+ backs.  There were tow major improvements.  The first one was a better rendering of the 3/4 midtones.  The standard P25 sometimes had tough time making smooth transitions in the shadow areas and the new P25+ fixed the problem.  The second was an improvement on the IR filtration.
To much of the IR spectrum was seeping through on the standard P25 and sometimes giving odd
color renditions, the P25+ corrected that.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year[/url]

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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Henry Goh

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 11:06:53 am »

Quote
Henry,

Since the P25 was the first P back introduced, it will have the most improvements of all of the new P+ backs.  There were tow major improvements.  The first one was a better rendering of the 3/4 midtones.  The standard P25 sometimes had tough time making smooth transitions in the shadow areas and the new P25+ fixed the problem.  The second was an improvement on the IR filtration.
To much of the IR spectrum was seeping through on the standard P25 and sometimes giving odd
color renditions, the P25+ corrected that.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell 
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191864\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you Chris!
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Guy Mancuso

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 11:24:52 am »

Quote
I couldn't believe my eyes, you only have 8 posts since 05,  

I purchased Leica M8 just because of your devotion to Leica World and some tough battles you had over the years... how could I resist, heheehe!!!

I tested ZD, and I really liked it... except PHASE is just too Simple/Works/Sweet Long Exposure  and it runs like BENZ use to!!! 

I will probably go Phase/Mamiya, even though I originally wanted Phase/H2

Nice to see you here, I hope life is treating you well  

Best
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I know i still love my M8's and even have a Nikon D300 for the PR stuff but i am really wanting to get this MF stuff going more. I really like the Zd and the files are very nice but i want to look at the Phase One stuff also. The ZD is a slow turtle in mud on review and the LCD is small. I would like something faster in that area and also the ability to go to ISO 400 . If I can get to 400 i can use the camera more in places that I would not dare to go at ISO 100. So yes Lance will be able to demo the Phase line to all the workshop attendees and it will give me a chance to make some real comparisons. i really don't need much more than 22mpx per say as long as they come from MF it is a huge improvement but a little more speed all around would be great.
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Guy Mancuso

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 11:42:35 am »

Quote
Thank you very much Guy.

Nice to see you're around still.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks I only visit a few select forums and LL i do watch . It's a nice place here also. I just jumped into MF digital but after looking at the files i am sliding very fast down that slope. It's fun
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Kika Livno

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 11:58:05 am »

Quote
I know i still love my M8's and even have a Nikon D300 for the PR stuff but i am really wanting to get this MF stuff going more. I really like the Zd and the files are very nice but i want to look at the Phase One stuff also. The ZD is a slow turtle in mud on review and the LCD is small. I would like something faster in that area and also the ability to go to ISO 400 . If I can get to 400 i can use the camera more in places that I would not dare to go at ISO 100. So yes Lance will be able to demo the Phase line to all the workshop attendees and it will give me a chance to make some real comparisons. i really don't need much more than 22mpx per say as long as they come from MF it is a huge improvement but a little more speed all around would be great.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191869\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you go Phase, you won't waste time.......  ISO400 is very, very exceptable only remember when you do the test, the screen on the back is not good enough and it doesn't measure with Canon/Nikon/Leica/etc. However, the files are just AMAZING from P30+, from P45+ the details is just so sweet..... to describe it!  

Please don't forget to test long exposure shooting Architecture/Landscape... it will make you feel good and confident about the investment/product even if you shoot most of the time Fashion!!!

Troubleshooting/Lens cast FIX with wide angle lenses and such is so simple!!!

If you ask Phase owners about the first thing they would change, most of them will tell you the screen and I strongly agree, that's all as far as I am concerned!!!

Whatever else they bring is more than what I need anyway... OK faster speed would be good, but that will come.....

After you do your test, I would love to hear your opinion...

Best
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henrikfoto

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 03:34:02 pm »

Quote
I hope to have some newer tests soon, but at least this will show you the quality of the P30+.

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/

It's hard to tell someone that one file looks better than another, but I can tell you certain backs are better suited for particular shooters.  The P25+ and the P45+ are better suited for architectural or product shooters because of their full frame ability.  The P45+ is a bit slower to shoot with because of the file size and since architectural shooters don't shoot like fashion shooters, it's fine.  The P30+ crops slightly and has a lens factor of 1.3. 

If you go to our web site you can see some of our clients and what they shoot with:

http://www.captureintegration.com/tools/ou...orite-websites/
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell 
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191856\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



Thanks for the examples, Chris!
Can you please tell me what camera and lens that was used?

Henrik
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eronald

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 04:09:22 pm »

Quote
Thanks for the examples, Chris!
Can you please tell me what camera and lens that was used?

Henrik
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have a P45 on loan as my P45+ has dropped a column and is back for repair. My impression is that the P45 I have on loan is making much better images than the two P45+ samples I've used. Much crisper, sharper, better color, the effect is immediately visible on the computer previews, and also the on-back previews are sharp at thhigest magnification. I don't know why. It may simply be that I'm using it at lower ISO - 100 or 200 rather than 200 or 400. My own P45+ I have been using is -just- better than the 1Ds3, this P45 is exceeding my expectations.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 04:19:18 pm by eronald »
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henrikfoto

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 05:07:29 pm »

Quote
I have a P45 on loan as my P45+ has dropped a column and is back for repair. My impression is that the P45 I have on loan is making much better images than the two P45+ samples I've used. Much crisper, sharper, better color, the effect is immediately visible on the computer previews, and also the on-back previews are sharp at thhigest magnification. I don't know why. It may simply be that I'm using it at lower ISO - 100 or 200 rather than 200 or 400. My own P45+ I have been using is -just- better than the 1Ds3, this P45 is exceeding my expectations.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Do you think it´s possible that the older P45 makes better immages than the P45+??
Anybody else who have seen this?

Henrik
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clawery

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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2008, 05:19:52 pm »

Quote
Thanks for the examples, Chris!
Can you please tell me what camera and lens that was used?

Henrik
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Henrik,

It was a Mamiya 645 AFDII and their 120mm macro.

Chris Lawery
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chris@captureintegration.com
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henrikfoto

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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2008, 05:22:13 pm »

Quote
Henrik,

It was a Mamiya 645 AFDII and their 120mm macro.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell 
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Chris!

I ment the shot of the buildings. Must have been something wider?

Henrik
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henrikfoto

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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2008, 06:19:21 pm »

Quote
I have a P45 on loan as my P45+ has dropped a column and is back for repair. My impression is that the P45 I have on loan is making much better images than the two P45+ samples I've used. Much crisper, sharper, better color, the effect is immediately visible on the computer previews, and also the on-back previews are sharp at thhigest magnification. I don't know why. It may simply be that I'm using it at lower ISO - 100 or 200 rather than 200 or 400. My own P45+ I have been using is -just- better than the 1Ds3, this P45 is exceeding my expectations.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Is it possible that the extra features of the + backs comes at some cost when it comes to image-quality?
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James R Russell

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2008, 06:41:59 pm »

Quote
Is it possible that the extra features of the + backs comes at some cost when it comes to image-quality?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191937\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I don't think that's the case.

I had a p30 before switching to the plus and the plus iso is better, the screen more detailed, though the regular p30 screen was much better in bright sunlight, actually pretty good in bright sunlight.

Overall with the P30, p30+ and the P21+ they have all been bulletproof for me, with the exception of very few glitches.

For a slight period the 30+ had some half black frames when tethering, myabe 2 out of 200 to 400 so nothng systemic, but still a slight plain, though 3.78 seems to have fixed that.

For thethering the phase backs are stable, same for post processing large batches of images.

Yes things can happen, like if you loverload a folder of 500 or so images 3.78 can crash, though the upside is it starts back up and usually picks up what is in the buffer.

Once I tried to batch process jepgs,  2,000 images in one folder and it crashed, though once again started up and the batch que continued where it left off.

None of these cameras are perfect, including the dslrs, but for stability the phase is as tough as it comes and if there is a problem I guess like all the manufacturers they'll make good, though after a gazillion frames I've never had a mechanical breakdown.

As far as the extra crop frame of 1.3 vs. the other cameras 1.1, it really isn't that severe as the 1.3 is actually something like 1.26 and the 1.1 is actually 1.16 or 1.17.

JR
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Bill Caulfeild-Browne

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Phase one. Which one to buy?
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2008, 07:58:44 pm »

Quote
Is it possible that the extra features of the + backs comes at some cost when it comes to image-quality?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191937\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I used a P45 for about 8 months (a loaner) while waiting for the P45+ I'd ordered - which I've now used for about 8 months too. The differences are subtle - as far as resolution is concerned, I can't see any. But the dynamic range is about 2/3rds of a stop better and ISO 200 is eminently usable on the +.

ISO 400 is better too, tho' as a landscape guy I would rather avoid it.

The long exposure times (minutes) are discernibly better with the +.

Conclusion - for resolution, no advantage. For everything else, small but worthwhile improvements.

bill
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