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Author Topic: HB H3D users experience?  (Read 5326 times)

vgogolak

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HB H3D users experience?
« on: April 24, 2008, 01:34:50 pm »

I plan on adding a system, and for top quality the options include (for me)
Hy6 with Rollei schneider lenses with sinar back (not leaf, as I cant use on Contax)
H2 with any back maybe even leaf, though more likely HB or Sinar
H3D II  Just bite the bullet and go Fuji lenses!

Lots of Hy6 discussion, and some H2. But not much H3.

All you guy out enjoying the camera? or not really that crazy about it.

So, the question is; for all the whoopla and techy stuff, do you get the IQ you want.

Coming from Leica M, R and Contax zeiss as well as Hassey Zeiss, it is difficult short of renting (who does in the DC area?) I am finding reviews and info scarce.

Anything would help!

but esp images, esp raw?    

regards
Victor
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joern_kiel

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HB H3D users experience?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 10:44:26 pm »

Victor,

i for one have the H3D39 with some lenses (28/50-110/100/120/150). The lenses are outstanding. Coming from Hasselblad V and Contax 645 there is nothing i am missing. Instead i enjoy the ergonomics of the H system a lot.

You will find a lot of information here:
http://www.hasselbladusers.com/

and some impressive real world pictures here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/tags/h3d/

jørn
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rethmeier

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HB H3D users experience?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 11:56:04 pm »

Victor,

with a name like yours,I would bite the bullet!(LOL)

It all depends on your shooting style.

Personally I like working with the Hy6,a bit like shooting with the old  V series Blad.

The lenses (NonAF) are not that expensive second hand,my lens kit , 5 Schneiders didn't cost me more than $14K and that includes the 55PCS.

However,if reportage is more your style,I would go for the H3D.

Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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Khun_K

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HB H3D users experience?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 12:01:48 am »

Quote
Victor,

i for one have the H3D39 with some lenses (28/50-110/100/120/150). The lenses are outstanding. Coming from Hasselblad V and Contax 645 there is nothing i am missing. Instead i enjoy the ergonomics of the H system a lot.

You will find a lot of information here:
http://www.hasselbladusers.com/

and some impressive real world pictures here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/tags/h3d/

jørn
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I used both system and may be I can give a little feedback;  I own H3D39 and 6 lenses for close to 18 months so I am more familiar with H3D, I have used Hy6/e75 for more than a month, so obviously my review of both may not perfect.
But anyway, image first, the difference between 39 an 33 million capture back is really so small I would not mind using either one for any assignment. As for the fine detail of file quality, I would have to say it is really too close to call.  For skin tone, my preference will be Hy6/e75 because it looks more pleasing to me, although to this stage much of the file converted has lots to do with the conversion engine. But for what I shoot mostly, models, my preference will go to Hy6/e75, but again, the difference is so small I think it may not enough to justify a switch, but for the new buyers the Hy6 is highly considerable platform.  For still and landscape, I have satisfied result from H3D39 but not have much opportunity to shoot with Hy6/e75, so this remained to be reported if I have more opportunity.
Image aside, the difference between the 2 systems becomes very visible;
Camera interface design - I would strongly favor Hy6 over H3D for a very simple reason - the Hy6 is to me designed like a real camera and H3D is to me more a small computer. Although both system offer extensive custom setting, with Hy6, thru the usual dial/bottom you can quickly get into what you need but with H3D it became a more time consuming process.  Since I also use P45+ on Contax 645, which I also valued it over the H type system control, I think since the camera can really just shoot RAW, much of it may be just leave it to computer, especially when such a system becomes so complicate, sometimes you get the error message between the lens and body and the shutter won't react to your command that is sometimes quite annoying.  With Hy6/e75, you can quickly go between auto mode or totally manual by just turning the aperture ring on the lens that is indeed convenient. For those who has fully accustomed to the H type of interface may disagree but as said, this is my own opinion using these systems.
The Hy6/e75 given its 6X6 size, can surely be categorized as compact, because it is not bigger than the H3D, except the e75 back is a tab bigger than the H back so it does make the Hy6 a little bigger, but not heavier. I found the particular shape of the Sinar back is good because when you switch the orientation of back often, the way the back attached to the camera will remind you the exact mode you are working on.  However, the H3D system is very comfortable to shoot in either orientation, not a problem, except, the ergonomic of the H system design around the user to offer good comfort when shooting, but it is quite difficult to carry the camera around when not shooting, especially with the most often used lens 50-110mm attached.
Travel friendly - although I did not make a straight comparison, but I can easily estimate the system back or case require for a Hy6/e75 with 4-5 lenses will be a lot smaller than the H3D39 system, and a lot lighter.  The only lens close in size is the standard 80mm lens, the HC lenses are a lot bigger than the Schneider/Zeiss lenses, a weight a lot more, such as the 50mm, the 120 makro, except however the zoom lens from Schnieder, which is as big.  So for location, I might decided on Hy6/e75 simply because I can pack smaller and ligher.  For studio, I guess this does not matter.
The software support - now the fff is viewable directly on Mac so it is indeed an advantage for quick reference of what you shoot.  The new Phocus software is quite good and responsive, I still trying to get the most out of it, and I think it is somewhat still a little behind the Capture 4 - again - my own point of view.  For Sinar, I have yet spent enough quality time on Xposure so I cannot comment.
Obviously, today the medium format DB are all very close and perhaps one has to make a lot of comparison to decide on one.  If anyone has already settled into a platform, I think one has to think and think a lot before the switch, but for someone is looking for a new investment into this level of image capture, I think there is many to consider on the system compatibility, the H3D is a totally close system, although that also come with the digital correction.  On the other hand, the e75 seemed to be of maximum flexibility, not only does it comes with an internal HD, but it can be converted to use on just about any system, except H3. On Contax 645, still one of my favorite system, will eventually run out its own life, and then the Mamiya/Phase One system.  So interestingly to speak, the Hy6/Sinar will be the only true German/European breed optical/image capture medium format system today, and perhaps added the Alpa among other smaller ones.  Although many may disagree German optics still hold much, if any, edge over Japanese made, but today the Japanese lenses are selling at price so similar to German optics, so it becomes a choice of originality, design, mechanical and all that, and for those factors, I think perhaps German optics still have slight edge over Japanese ones.
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jecxz

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HB H3D users experience?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 01:58:15 am »

I can only comment on the H system, specifically the H2 and H3DII39. Having spent thousands of hours behind my H2 and having recently upgraded and gotten comfortable with the H3DII, I can appreciate:

1) The excellent and well thought out system design (it is clear to me); menu is logical and easy to operate

2) Then lens quality, as already stated; my lens are almost 3 years old and showing no signs of aging (I am meticulous with my gear, which perhaps has something to do with that); I shoot outdoors only, rain, sand, wind, snow, etc…

3) Ergonomics are quite comfortable in my opinion; handgrip and buttons are all well thought out and all reconfigurable

4) Customization is very flexible, with profiles that make switching between styles convenient and fast

5) Very rugged and durable, solidly built and well sealed

6) I really appreciate the large 3" LCD, menu interface is simple and easy to navigate

7) The H3DII is fast enough for my shooting style, meaning controls work during the split second of writing 39mp of data so my next exposure is already being setup and ready - I don't notice any delays - preview is fast too

8) The H3DII is a 4th generation system, which means the quirks and issues of a new system are not present. Hasselblad is making improvements all the time and firmware updates are free and improve older bodies; all systems have quirks, especially when new updates are released – this is something that requires getting used to

9) Hasselblad has invested quite a bit of R&D into Phocus and is rolling it out in stages for testing and phased user access - the smart way to roll out software. From what I've seen, it’s a major improvement over Flexcolor and it shows the level of commitment of Hasselblad; other than the low-res preview of Flexcolor, it is a very powerful application (I’m am PC based so I will remain with Flexcolor for now)

10) Lens availability was also important to me, at the current state the H system has a full AF line up with digital correction as well

11) Impressive lossless compression with 3FR files, about 40mb to 80mb per 39mp image, also full exposure information in the image file

12) Documentation is excellent and up to date

Personally, I had to make a decision to go with a system that was already established; I appreciate the single interface (body/back), quite the opposite of how a few feel about a "closed" system – I do not subscribe to the idea that a closed system is bad – Canon and Nikon are closed systems. I rather have an integrated system than a system made by two companies. There is something to be said when the same team of engineers can work together on camera, firmware, software and imaging – without worrying about trade secrets, contracts, corporate egos, etc… One company, one product: faster resolutions to new issues, faster improvements, better results. For me, I wanted to take photographs today; Hasselblad delivered that to me with a complete system, today. Some will disagree; you will have to decide for yourself. One note: if you have several bodies from different manufacturers, this may be a reason to go with a separate back that works on your two or more systems - keep that in mind if that is the case.

I suggest that you rent each system and a few lenses and find out which you like better before making a large investment. Good luck to you.

Kind regards,
Derek
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Dustbak

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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 02:39:21 am »

You could also go for the H2(f) with CF back. This will give you the same flexibity as Sinar because you can use it with virtually every camera body including your Contax. It has almost all functionality as the H3 including use of the 28mm lens (soon).

The CF is quite an open system and a lot more appealing now with the altered specifications of the H2F.

I was sceptical about the Fuji glass in the beginning as well but am working with it for almost a year now and am very satisfied with the quality of the glass. I own & use the 35, 80, 100, 150, 50-110 and have the 210 & 300 coming withing the next 2 weeks.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 02:40:48 am by Dustbak »
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vgogolak

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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 09:25:56 am »

Great feedback; hits all the key issues. From the input here is seems a tossup. I did not realize the H2F with CF back would take the 28mm HCD. If true, that makes a huge difference.

I will have a chance to try both (maybe the three) systems in a few weeks. This kind of investment takes time.

I currently use, and will continue with the C645/P45+ It works quite well (AE and focus confirm as well) with HB V lenses, from 30mm to 500/8! that I have

The H3d and Hy6 are both quite close. I do not anticipate using a rotating back, but I certainly am interested in a 48x48 square sensor in the future. That may tip me to the Hy6

We will see.
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