Sample P30 RAW file required

[hobbsr]

Hi All,

As I have no experience shooting with DMF and am looking for a digital back for my Mamiya 645 AFD II can someone please supply an example Phase One P30 back shoot from an outdoor session?

I need to compare as have an option on a new D3 body or get a P30 back?

Any help would be great as really trying to get the best option and need to see the DMB difference for myself.

Regards

Rodney

[Snook]

Hi All,

As I have no experience shooting with DMF and am looking for a digital back for my Mamiya 645 AFD II can someone please supply an example Phase One P30 back shoot from an outdoor session?

I need to compare as have an option on a new D3 body or get a P30 back?

Any help would be great as really trying to get the best option and need to see the DMB difference for myself.

Regards

Rodney
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Your Joking right?
Snook

[Chris Livsey]

Your Joking right?
Snook
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You might want to wait for the 24 Meg Dwhatever camera which is due, you might, but only might, not raise as many laughs.

[a href=\"http://photoclubalpha.kilpatrickmedia.net/2008/04/16/nikon-d3x-244-megapixel-sensor-leak/]http://photoclubalpha.kilpatrickmedia.net/...el-sensor-leak/[/url]

[RobertJ]

A D3 or a P30?  That's a pretty huge gap, in terms of image quality and price, if you ask me.

If you want to see the difference between full-frame 12MP and a P30, pick up a used 5D for an easy $1,800 or less, and see if that's all you need.

[E_Edwards]

That's ridiculous!  Why do you all sound so smug?

The guy is only asking for a sample raw file to see the difference by himself. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[AndreNapier]

Rodney,
I own D3 and Aptus75s with both H2 and Rz.
I am not going to laugh like other because I for one actually use it. D3 is a great camera. If you do not need all that resolution of DB it does an outstanding job. There is a difference of course. The biggest one is on the large screen when you are shooting tethered. The image from A75s looks alive while the D3 is flat. Once the images are processed and printed to 11x14 it is much harder to tell them apart. Once they are magazine published good luck in telling them apart.
http://AndreNapier.com

[Chris Livsey]

That's ridiculous!  Why do you all sound so smug?

The guy is only asking for a sample raw file to see the difference by himself. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No nothing wrong with that. Except the 'recent work' thread
[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22425#]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....howtopic=22425#[/url]
contains enough images, OK not actual files, to make some kind of judgement surely and if another SLR v MFDB back thread starts there will be suicides to contend with.

I thought my advice was pertinent in that a higher resolution version of the D3 is coming which might, given we are told by the OP very little about his requirements, provide a closer resolution match to a P30 I certainly did not intend to sound "smug" but would have hoped the OP would have done some searching first or, given the recent threads ( wasn't the advice on forums at one time to read for a while before posting? ), at least just ask for a P30 file to look at, full stop.
Rodney asks for help for the best option for him, fine, but "outdoor session" is all we have to go on.
I would if I had a P30 gladly send him a file I'm not smug I'm trying to help. My "raise a laugh" comment is based on recent postings where this comparison has been flogged to death perhaps I should have said a hollow laugh.

[E_Edwards]

Well, ok but although the 'recent work' thread has plenty of jpg samples, there is nothing like a raw to see for yourself and play with the different raw processors, so I sympathised.

There is very little in the way of raw files available for downloading, I don't really know why.

For instance, I've logged on to the Phase One site and I could not find anywhere where I could download samples, why not, why make it so difficult, anything to hide? Maybe I didn't look properly, but if they are there at all, they are certainly well hidden.

Leaf, however, have plenty of samples, this tells me a lot about a company.

Edward

[Snook]

Well, ok but although the 'recent work' thread has plenty of jpg samples, there is nothing like a raw to see for yourself and play with the different raw processors, so I sympathised.

There is very little in the way of raw files available for downloading, I don't really know why.

For instance, I've logged on to the Phase One site and I could not find anywhere where I could download samples, why not, why make it so difficult, anything to hide? Maybe I didn't look properly, but if they are there at all, they are certainly well hidden.

Leaf, however, have plenty of samples, this tells me a lot about a company.

Edward
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190686\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did not really mean to offend anybody..
Just the subject has been beat to death and they are both for different types of shooting.
I also believe there were a couple of RAW samples posted before.
I also think that Phase or some of these smaller dealers have their own test examples you can download.
Also what kind of subject to you want to compare it to..
What type of light etc.. just any RAW picture is not probably going to help you in you decision.
Snook

[TMARK]

What is goofy isn't a comparison between a D3 and a P30, its the thought that someone would base a decision whether or not to spend $12,000 upon a raw someone else shot.  The P30 produces a higher quality image in every respect.  That shouldn't even be a question.  The question is whether you are cool shooting at 1.3 frames per second, whether you can live with ISO 400 at the top end of usable, and whether the AFd is the cam for you.  Thus, you need to rent one, or go to a dealer and shoot one for an hour at least to give you an idea of what you can expect.  These things cost like cars.  Would you buy a car without a test drive?  Base your decision on what a stranger says about the ride/handling?

[hobbsr]

Hi All,

Glad that my post gets a laugh! I did not mean the question to be that funny nor am I stupid to not have tried many other options before posting and have tried to post other threads to draw on the great skills and experience that you all have as I am new to MF and DMF.

1. I am not going to base this decision on a single file being provided on a thread!!
2. My local dealer showed some example files shoot by a very well known wedding photographer and to me they did not do that much for me
3. I have a D3 for the next day or so and have example images that I have taken
4. I can't seem to get my hands on a P30 or a P anything to test

So of course this type of topic has been done to death, of course there are heaps of rumors going around about the next versions of the cameras but I am trying to see for myself what I can see in the IQ.

The key choice for me is to:
1. trade an M8 for a D3 - M8 at lower iso is great and I think from some examples and my own images is  a great system but does have limits around manual focus and high iso. D# is a image machine so quick and can shoot in any light the high iso is unreal - so two very different systems but only one option with the money I have

2. Lease a P30 and try and take my work to a whole new level where I can work within the limits of a 645 system a still have a D3 or D300 for the times I need speed and high iso.

Hope that helps and does not raise any more laughs only trying to improve and grow as a professional.

The key is to be different and that is all I am trying to do by having the best IQ I can so I can focus on creating images.

Regards

Rodney

[vandevanterSH]

  These things cost like cars.  Would you buy a car without a test drive?  Base your decision on what a stranger says about the ride/handling?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190691\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I bought a car without a test drive..worked out OK.

[samuel_js]

Hi All,

Glad that my post gets a laugh! I did not mean the question to be that funny nor am I stupid to not have tried many other options before posting and have tried to post other threads to draw on the great skills and experience that you all have as I am new to MF and DMF.

1. I am not going to base this decision on a single file being provided on a thread!!
2. My local dealer showed some example files shoot by a very well known wedding photographer and to me they did not do that much for me
3. I have a D3 for the next day or so and have example images that I have taken
4. I can't seem to get my hands on a P30 or a P anything to test

So of course this type of topic has been done to death, of course there are heaps of rumors going around about the next versions of the cameras but I am trying to see for myself what I can see in the IQ.

The key choice for me is to:
1. trade an M8 for a D3 - M8 at lower iso is great and I think from some examples and my own images is  a great system but does have limits around manual focus and high iso. D# is a image machine so quick and can shoot in any light the high iso is unreal - so two very different systems but only one option with the money I have

2. Lease a P30 and try and take my work to a whole new level where I can work within the limits of a 645 system a still have a D3 or D300 for the times I need speed and high iso.

Hope that helps and does not raise any more laughs only trying to improve and grow as a professional.

The key is to be different and that is all I am trying to do by having the best IQ I can so I can focus on creating images.

Regards

Rodney
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You should consider a P21.
Still, I don't know what kind of work you do. It would help actually.

[Don Libby]

Rodney

If I read between the lines of your post I assume your main photographic interest is in shooting outdoors, but that also leave a heck of a lot of room for speculation.  Do you shoot landscape or sports or events, rodeos, travel?   It would also help us clue in on where you’re located.  The US, East, South, or Southwest if you’re uncomfortable with an exact location give us a general area; this can help you out as well.  If you’re close to the Tucson area then maybe I might be able to lend you a hand and let you see (and use) my Mamiya AFD II & P30+ - this offer is only good for a couple weeks as we are off to Alaska very shortly.

If memory serves me correctly, I think Capture Integration (Chris Lawery) has or had a couple test shots available for downloading you may want to consider contacting them for the information.

Others have said this before but I’ll add my voice to it – comparing digital medium format (any make) to digital 35 (any make) is a big mistake as they just don’t compare well.  If what you’re trying to do is see what you can live with for the lesser amount of money then just go with 35mm.

My main camera format is medium format I use this exclusively for landscape and panorama work.  This said, I still have and use my Canon 1Ds II for wildlife which is less than 5% of my work.  My wife uses a Canon 1Ds III for all her work and it suits her style.  How does the 1Ds III compare to the P30?  It doesn’t.  They’re both great cameras but there is just too much difference between the two camera types to make a meaningful comparison.  I would submit that the same is true with any camera manufacture.

I reread your latest post – I think you are close to being on target in your #2 thought process of choices.  Medium format is not the cure all format; there isn’t any one size fits all here, it’s whatever is right for you and your style.  

2. Lease a P30 and try and take my work to a whole new level where I can work within the limits of a 645 system a still have a D3 or D300 for the times I need speed and high iso.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My offer is good for the next two weeks only - after that I’m unavailable for many months to come.  You might also want to look in your area and check on-line to see where your Phase One dealers are and contact them for a demo.

Can’t think of any other suggestions/recommendations.  Good luck with your final decision.

don

[hobbsr]

Hi,

I am based in Melbourne, Australia but do spend quite a bit of time in Sydney. I mainly shoot mid to high end weddings and portrait work. I want to start getting back into some fine art projects that will end with A3 or A2 type prints.

Currently I shoot mainly by available light and do not shoot in studios and have limited knowledge of that kind of lighting setup.

I am talking with Chris at capture integration and he is being very supportive. I also have some of the sample images from there site.

I really want to get a feel for the printed outcome and what the differences look like at that level oppose to just some pixel peeping.

Rodney

[Morgan_Moore]

I have D3 and sinar22mp

The D3 images are soft (the filter) and pixelated (the rez) when you do side by side tests

However with the D3 every frame is a keeper - excellent AF

The requirement for carrying lighting is quartered

Many images at 1/250s and perfect focus at 12mp actually outresolve a slightly misfocussed image at hand held 1/80th at 22mp

ect

I think they are different tools for different jobs - the D3 is an excellent tool handheld - the MFDB need to slow shooting approach to shine and when they shine they really shine

Buy both


SMM

[Chris Livsey]

If you have an M8 you are running Capture One in some form ? Why not buy the Walter Borchenko book or even better borrow just the disc this has Phase One files from different backs different shooters and yes very varied scenes to play with.
I also run an M8 and while the files are of high quality, no AA filter helps, my venerable P20 leaves them standing but the handling and use of an M8 against A 'blad V system is chalk and cheese. I am also looking at a D300 for the reach/autofocus situations my reading is that the D3 and M8 are of similar when processed "properly" IQ.
You can run one SLR say 1DsIII and say it covers all the bases but remember Jack of all trades master of none.

[Marlyn]

Rodney,

If you can get up to Sydney, go see Bruce Pottinger at L&P  in Artarmon.  They are the Phase One importers in Australia, and have a shelf full of various backs.

I am currently having a similar evaluation, between a 1Ds Mk III and dipping my toe in the MFDB arena. Thanks to Bruce, was able to spend an hour shooting with both around Centenial park last week. Very informative.   (My files are only from a P20+ back, so not really usefull to you).  Also having never ever used a AFD II before, they mostly suck

Regards

Mark.

PS: I have no affiliation with L&P other than I shop there waaaay too often.

[hobbsr]

Hi Mark,

Thanks have been speaking with Richard at L&P they are looking for a P30 back for me to use here in Melb.

Do you have a p21+ file for me to have a look at as this is the other option for me to consider?

What is your view to the 1D MIII vs P21+?

Rodney

[clawery]

Here is a link to show you some of our tests comparing serveral P+ and non P+ backs.

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/


Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

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