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Author Topic: Canon shooting at f/1.2  (Read 12856 times)

stevecoleccs

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« on: April 17, 2008, 03:02:31 PM »

Hi - I have a 1ds MKlll & shoot with the 50mm 1.2 & 85mm 1.2. When I shoot at 1.2 with
either of these lenses the image is slightly soft, I'm shooting an "object" that is 10 feet away.
I tried shooting again at infinite with the same resluts. If I shoot at 2.8 everything is fine.

Is there some micro adjustment to be made somewhere? or is this the way it is.

~ cole

DarkPenguin

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 03:18:08 PM »

Quote
Hi - I have a 1ds MKlll & shoot with the 50mm 1.2 & 85mm 1.2. When I shoot at 1.2 with
either of these lenses the image is slightly soft, I'm shooting an "object" that is 10 feet away.
I tried shooting again at infinite with the same resluts. If I shoot at 2.8 everything is fine.

Is there some micro adjustment to be made somewhere? or is this the way it is.

~ cole
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Here it is on a 20D.

[a href=\"http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1000/cat/10]http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct...uct/1000/cat/10[/url]

It won't be any better on a FF camera.
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stevecoleccs

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 03:51:36 PM »

Quote
Here it is on a 20D.

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct...uct/1000/cat/10

It won't be any better on a FF camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for the link - it is a big help, I guess I'll just shoot at F/2.8!

~ cole

lovell

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 04:36:17 PM »

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Thanks for the link - it is a big help, I guess I'll just shoot at F/2.8!

~ cole
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190208\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What is your camera workflow?  In other words, do you Lock-Focus-Recompose when using such a fast aperture?  Do you manually pick and choose the best focus point, use it to lock focus, NOT recompose, then take the shot?

It could be that this is not a lens issue but a user issue.
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After composition, everything else is secondary--Alfred Steiglitz, NYC, 1927.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 05:39:16 PM »

I think this thread belongs more to one of those 'Your Equipment Does NOT Matter' threads. Here we have a guy who shoots with some of the best equipment there is on this planet, produces wonderful results with it, and yet apparently has no clue whatsoever how lenses work. I mean no offense to the OP, I did enjoy photography on his website... just a rhetorical observation.

Slobodan

P.S. Here is another rhetorical question: if the solution is to shoot at f/2.8, what is the point in using two lenses that are twice as heavy, have slower autofocus and stunningly 5x more expensive than their brethren (i.e., 85/1.8 and 50/1.4)?

DarkPenguin

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 05:45:37 PM »

I'm pretty sure the f1.2s can survive reentry from orbit.  So if that's a concern they're probably good to have.
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Henry Goh

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 06:12:06 PM »

Quote
Hi - I have a 1ds MKlll & shoot with the 50mm 1.2 & 85mm 1.2. When I shoot at 1.2 with
either of these lenses the image is slightly soft, I'm shooting an "object" that is 10 feet away.
I tried shooting again at infinite with the same resluts. If I shoot at 2.8 everything is fine.

Is there some micro adjustment to be made somewhere? or is this the way it is.

~ cole
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Steve,

I'm shooting wide open with the 85mm f/1.2L II and 1Ds MKIII also.  As to be expected, DOF is extremely shallow so most of the image area that is not on the plane of focus is soft/OOF.  However, with mine, the subject that sits in the plane of focus and especially at the focus point is TACK SHARP.  I did spend time micro-adjusting the 1Ds MKIII to perfection to achieve this as @ f/1.2, any error is punished dramatically.  I hope this feedback will motivate you not to just shoot @ f/2.8 but to re-visit getting the body and those lenses into tune.

Best regards,
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stevecoleccs

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 06:41:17 PM »

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Dear Steve,

I'm shooting wide open with the 85mm f/1.2L II and 1Ds MKIII also.  As to be expected, DOF is extremely shallow so most of the image area that is not on the plane of focus is soft/OOF.  However, with mine, the subject that sits in the plane of focus and especially at the focus point is TACK SHARP.  I did spend time micro-adjusting the 1Ds MKIII to perfection to achieve this as @ f/1.2, any error is punished dramatically.  I hope this feedback will motivate you not to just shoot @ f/2.8 but to re-visit getting the body and those lenses into tune.

Best regards,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Henry for your comment, I'll try micro-adjusting my camera & experment a little more.

~ cole

stevecoleccs

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2008, 06:44:32 PM »

Quote from: slobodan56,Apr 17 2008, 04:39 PM
I think this thread belongs more to one of those 'Your Equipment Does NOT Matter' threads.

- Nope - this has nothing to do with "that" subject.

P.S. Here is another rhetorical question: if the solution is to shoot at f/2.8, what is the point in using two lenses that are twice as heavy, have slower autofocus and stunningly 5x more expensive than their brethren (i.e., 85/1.8 and 50/1.4)?

- Because I first bought the lens to shoot at 1.2, my question is why is it no tack sharp.

sergio

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2008, 08:33:18 PM »

What else could one expect from such a wide opening with such a big chunk of glass?
I love its softness and bokeh @1.2. @f5.6 it is my sharpest lens and with little distortion. I basically use it only at these 2 fstops, one for very shallow depth of field and the other for maximum sharpness at the given plane of focus. Great perfomer.
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sojournerphoto

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 04:12:04 AM »

Quote
Hi - I have a 1ds MKlll & shoot with the 50mm 1.2 & 85mm 1.2. When I shoot at 1.2 with
either of these lenses the image is slightly soft, I'm shooting an "object" that is 10 feet away.
I tried shooting again at infinite with the same resluts. If I shoot at 2.8 everything is fine.

Is there some micro adjustment to be made somewhere? or is this the way it is.

~ cole
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Nice work

Mike
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Henry Goh

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 06:57:23 AM »

A quick sample
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Ray

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Canon shooting at f/1.2
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 10:47:37 AM »

There are obviously 2 things going on here. The shallow DoF of F1.2 necessitates more accurate focussing. Having got your accurate focussing, the results should appear sharp in relation to the surrounding OoF areas, but in fact will not be particularly sharp because most lenses are simply not sharp at such wide apertures. As regards camera lenses, it might be the case that no lens ever made is sharp at such apertures.

Here's an old Photodo MTF chart of the 85/1.2. The lower curve represents contrast at 40 lp/mm. The 1Ds3 is capable of recording 60 lp/mm. Any detail in the subject at 60 lp/mm (and probably at 50 lp/mm) simply won't register on the 1Ds3 sensor, using the 85/1.2 at full aperture.

[attachment=6188:attachment]
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Gary Yeowell

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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 12:47:40 PM »

Hi Steve,

Are you shooting autofocus with central spot or is this happening with manual focus? I ask as a user of the 1DS3 with the 85f1.2 mk2 myself because my 85 won't autofocus correctly at all with my 1DS3, sometimes it gets it but most times not. The camera has been back to Canon and has been calibrated with that lens, however it still cannot be used with absolute confidence. Ignore all the feedback suggesting that the 85 is not sharp at full aperture because it is, unbelievably so, but manual focus is the only option, and even then on certain subjects it's a little hit and miss, however when right it's sharp as a tack....

The 50mm maybe a different kettle of fish, and is a lens i dearly wanted to buy but did not because of the focus shift issues at close range and also its average performance at wide open, which after all is the whole point of owning that lens. In the end i decided upon a Canon 50macro and a Zeiss ZF 50f1.4 with a Nikon to Canon adapter.  Even though they are not that fast they can both be used near wide open with confidence and do not suffer with focus shifting upon stopping down, something to do with the Canon 50f1.2 and spherical aberations whilst not having floating elements for closeup, unlike the 85f1.2 which does.

Hope that helps even though it may not be an answer to your problem, if of course you are experiencing the problem with manual focus also then you may have a poor performing (calibrated) 85mm, as i tested 3 in store to get the one i own and it was better than the other 2 all manually focussed.

Lastly, again if manual focus is your preference you may wish to consider a matt screen, as a colleague of mine did recently with his 1DS for use with his Contax 85f1.4 and 135f2, both of which are now bang on almost every time at full opening which it was not with the original autofocus screen. If autofocus is your bag then all i can say is good luck, cos i don't think the camera can be relied upon with certain lenses at anything other than closeup where it's reliable, and crazily enough my 135f2 is perfect wide open in autofocus or manual so what gives?

 Regards, Gary.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 01:05:04 PM by Gary Yeowell »
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lovell

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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2008, 07:03:47 PM »

Quote
There are obviously 2 things going on here. The shallow DoF of F1.2 necessitates more accurate focussing. Having got your accurate focussing, the results should appear sharp in relation to the surrounding OoF areas, but in fact will not be particularly sharp because most lenses are simply not sharp at such wide apertures. As regards camera lenses, it might be the case that no lens ever made is sharp at such apertures.

Here's an old Photodo MTF chart of the 85/1.2. The lower curve represents contrast at 40 lp/mm. The 1Ds3 is capable of recording 60 lp/mm. Any detail in the subject at 60 lp/mm (and probably at 50 lp/mm) simply won't register on the 1Ds3 sensor, using the 85/1.2 at full aperture.

[attachment=6188:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190397\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My 85L Mark I is razor sharp at F1.2.  So is my 50L when I use it properly.  The biggest reason some people find soft focus at those wide open apertures is because they recompose, and/or do not manually specify the most appropriate focus point.  These people often have years experience shooting and may well even compose greatly, but still, when shooting fast and close, they shot like a newbie:  Lock Focus Recompose.

Faulty lenses aside, if people would learn to use their DSLR as the maker intended, we might have less of these types of threads.  Canon offers 9, 11, 45 focus points for a reason people, so use them (manual choosing), and doing so will not only improve wide open sharpness, your evaluative metering will improve too.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 07:04:46 PM by lovell »
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After composition, everything else is secondary--Alfred Steiglitz, NYC, 1927.

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Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2008, 07:08:22 PM »

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These people often have years experience shooting and may well even compose greatly, but still, when shooting fast and close, they shot like a newbie:  Lock Focus Recompose.

Which is why I wrote Why Focus-Recompose Sucks...

lovell

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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2008, 07:21:33 PM »

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Which is why I wrote Why Focus-Recompose Sucks...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190496\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So you're the one that wrote that!    

Very good article!
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After composition, everything else is secondary--Alfred Steiglitz, NYC, 1927.

I'm not afraid of death.  I just don't want to be there when it happens--Woody Allen, Annie Hall, '70s

Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2008, 07:31:30 PM »

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So you're the one that wrote that!     

Very good article!

Thank you.

Ray

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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2008, 08:19:21 PM »

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My 85L Mark I is razor sharp at F1.2.  So is my 50L when I use it properly.  [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190493\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If it's razor sharp at F1.2, then what is it at F5.6? What's sharper than a razor?  ...I'm trying to think!
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daethon

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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2008, 09:49:12 PM »

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If it's razor sharp at F1.2, then what is it at F5.6? What's sharper than a razor?  ...I'm trying to think!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190517\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ceramic or Damascus...as they are essentially micro level saws/serrated edges
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