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Author Topic: Photoshop print size limitation  (Read 14428 times)

rwheat

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Photoshop print size limitation
« on: April 14, 2008, 11:01:25 am »

Hi all, and thanks for all the help you've been with my Z3100.

I know print length issues have been discussed before but I have a slightly different issue.  I have been printing 20 x 56 inch panoramics for a while now without seeing any issues.  Recently I realized that I had some sort of print length issue.  I would (seemingly) randomly loose an inch or inch and a half off the end of the print.

I print from Photoshop CS3 under Windows XP 32 bit to a network connected Z3100 44 inch.  Latest firmware and driver.  One image in question is 4800 x 13318 pixels and I print at 240ppi.

After searching the forum I decided to try QImage as a test, as the consensus was that the print driver should be ok up to around the 108 inch mark and QImage was a good way to go.  With QImage the entire image prints without issue.

Another point.  I notice in the HP driver preview that when printing from Photoshop the preview actually shows a cut-down image (have to look closely)!  The preview from QImage shows the entire print.

So - is there some sort of print size limit with Photoshop under Windows - that has come into play recently?  My Photoshop is version 10.0.1.

It seems to me that the HP driver is doing the right thing - hence showing me the cut-off image in the preview ie. WYSIWYG.  QImage does not seem to have this problem but uses the same driver.

I didn't see this issue in the past with even bigger images.

Any clues?

Thanks,
Richard.

www.westernlandscapes.com.au
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Jonathan Wienke

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 11:14:02 am »

Photoshop has issues with large prints, including printing only part of the image. The maximum print size in PS depends on available RAM. You're best off using QImage for printing large files, rather than printing from PS directly.
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Doombrain

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 11:29:49 am »

PS3 has a 300'000 x 300'000 pixel limit
You're also limited by the HP driver so you'll need to check with them on that but also try assigning the recommend RAM in Photoshop.
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Farmer

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2008, 08:01:28 am »

Quote
PS3 has a 300'000 x 300'000 pixel limit
You're also limited by the HP driver so you'll need to check with them on that but also try assigning the recommend RAM in Photoshop.
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No, it has a 30,000 pixel limit, not 300,000 for printing.

However, the OP's image isn't that large.

It is over 44" though, and that's probably the issue.  For a test, I'd suggest resizing (leave the pixels the same, just change output DPI) to just under 44" and do a print preview (but don't do an actual print).  If the preview looks fine (as opposed to how it looks now) then it's a driver/OS (they always work in combination) issue.

It's possible that it's also related to your system (but not very likely) - you can try closing any apps that aren't needed, make a flat copy of the image and just open that (having closed PS first) and try printing.  I doubt it will help, but in a very small number of cases it can.  If you don't do it regularly, consider defragging your hard drives as well.

Since you've printed other images without issue that are longer, try opening one of them and see what happens.  If it previews with a problem, then try reinstalling your driver.

You can also go into the Advanced tab of your printer driver Properties and change to print directly to the printer instead of spooling and a few other options (experiment, but note how it is currently set so you can set it back).  Your driver utilities may also allow you to change where your driver spools/works on your data.
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Phil Brown

rwheat

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 12:36:24 am »

Thank you all for the suggestions and information - especially Phil.

I have sort of worked out what the issue is.

I tried Phil's suggestion of changing the resolution to vary the print length and found that 251ppi worked (53.061inches) and 250ppi didn't (53.272inches).  My test results were entirely consistent without variation - nothing random at all.

Why I have been able to print larger images in the past had me confused until I realised that this issue had come up only since I have been printing the image on Ilford Galerie Gold Fiber Silk - which requires a Best image setting in the driver.  In the past I have printed mostly to canvas which only required the Normal setting.

So I figure that Photoshop CS3 still has a 16-bit drawing space for printing - thus limiting my print length to around 53 inches at 600dpi (Best) or 109 inches at 300dpi (Normal).

So it looks like I'll have to buy QImage.

I thought that updates to PS had removed these limits?
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neil snape

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 02:53:28 am »

Quote
So I figure that Photoshop CS3 still has a 16-bit drawing space for printing - thus limiting my print length to around 53 inches at 600dpi (Best) or 109 inches at 300dpi (Normal).

So it looks like I'll have to buy QImage.

The output resolution is set in the driver and shouldn't be affected by the document resolution , nor depth. I did have problems with printing at 300ppi images over 2.3 metres where the only solution was to drop to 150 dpi. I suppose as you did, the better way would have been to set the res of the document to the highest possible and see what the driver did with this. The HP driver uprezes to 600 or 1200 depending on the driver settings but again this is in the background and not the same thing as the output resolution.

I have a  friend who is currently having problems with long prints on a Mac. The end of the print has a darker swath  at the end of the image. He rotated the image and it was gone. That would tell me it's a driver problem. I would have thought HP had corrected this in the drivers for long prints but they are still showing errors.
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Jonathan Wienke

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 10:03:35 am »

Quote
I tried Phil's suggestion of changing the resolution to vary the print length and found that 251ppi worked (53.061inches) and 250ppi didn't (53.272inches).  My test results were entirely consistent without variation - nothing random at all.

Why I have been able to print larger images in the past had me confused until I realised that this issue had come up only since I have been printing the image on Ilford Galerie Gold Fiber Silk - which requires a Best image setting in the driver.  In the past I have printed mostly to canvas which only required the Normal setting.

It's a RAM-related issue, and higher quality settings demand more data be sent to the printer. QImage is designed differently, and bypasses the limitation. And it's cheap, has a lot of cool features. You'll wonder how you got by without it.
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Farmer

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 04:33:58 pm »

I doubt it's RAM related.  It *might* be memory related, but since the OP isn't getting memory errors (such as Windows deciding it needs to increase the Pagefile) I'm hesitant to think that way either.  It could be 32bit memory fragmentation, but then you wouldn't have the consistency of the error at particular image sizes.

It's far more likely it's the driver (with some OS limitations).  Qimage is basically an RGB RIP and certainly does overcome some of the standard limitations frequently encountered with basic drivers with large images.

End result the same, I know, but it could be misleading to say it's RAM related because someone might then decide to increase their system RAM but that won't help.
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Phil Brown

rwheat

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 10:45:53 pm »

Thanks again for all the thoughts on this.

I wonder if someone with Photoshop CS3, Windows XP and a Z3100 might try this for me - just for a sanity check:

Create a grayscale image in 8 bit mode, 2 inches wide by 60 inches high and resolution of 240ppi.
Put some text on it - use say a-z vertically and size to nicely fill the image (Myriad Pro @ 165pt worked for me).

Then try printing it - you only need to do a driver preview - not actually print it.
First create a custom paper say 6 x 62 inches, then try printing with driver preview using, first normal (300dpi), then best (600dpi), then max (1200dpi).

What I see is that normal will print the entire image, best will cut off the bottom of the X, and max will cut off after the L.

BTW if I try the same image in QImage - all three resolutions print correctly.

Thanks again,
Richard.
www.westernlandscapes.com.au
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Jonathan Wienke

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2008, 09:46:18 am »

Quote
I doubt it's RAM related.  It *might* be memory related, but since the OP isn't getting memory errors (such as Windows deciding it needs to increase the Pagefile) I'm hesitant to think that way either.  It could be 32bit memory fragmentation, but then you wouldn't have the consistency of the error at particular image sizes.

I've had the exact same problem, and having other programs open or not does affect the mazimum image size that will print error-free. Photoshop dumps the entire image to the print driver all at once, and sufficiently large images will make the driver choke. QImage sends the image to the driver in small enough pieces that it never chokes. The only real solution is to use QImage for large prints.
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Farmer

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2008, 12:41:18 am »

Quote
I've had the exact same problem, and having other programs open or not does affect the mazimum image size that will print error-free. Photoshop dumps the entire image to the print driver all at once, and sufficiently large images will make the driver choke. QImage sends the image to the driver in small enough pieces that it never chokes. The only real solution is to use QImage for large prints.
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Right, which is a memory issue, not RAM.  Subtle and technical difference but important because just adding RAM won't fix it.  A 64 bit operating system or a program that handles the print process differently or changing how the driver processes the data or how your memory management is tuned and so forth will all have an impact.

Depending on your needs, a more fully featured RIP may also be a better answer than QImage (which is not to detract from QImage as it's a good product, although it's upressing benefits I believe are substantially overstated).  Certainly it's the cheapest of that line of options and there's no sacrifice in quality.
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Phil Brown

rwheat

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2008, 10:11:05 pm »

The whole idea of my little test was to eliminate memory issues from the equation.  The test image I propose is only a 6.5MByte image but still shows the Photoshop print length issue.

If someone could try it I would be grateful.

Thanks,
Richard.
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Farmer

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Photoshop print size limitation
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2008, 05:38:26 pm »

I don't have the HP to test but there is another point that you might need to consider.

Although I originally noted that you wouldn't be over the 0x7FFF (32767 pixel) limit I didn't take into account what the native resolutions of the HP driver might be for various settings.

If the driver needs to fill a larger dot matrix that causes you to end up with more than 32767 pixels and it shows this back to Photoshop you'll get the corruption, too.  So, at certain settings, even though the original file is less than 32767 pixels you may still end up suffering that same fate.

On the Epson driver you have an option for "coarse rendering" that fixes this problem (the driver still fills the matrix as needed but it doesn't show it back to PS in the same way).  There may be something similar on the HP driver.
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Phil Brown
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