Does a Cyc wall have to be white

[Eric Cable]

For my entire photo career I have been a location and SLR guy, but at the beginning of this year I put together a small studio with 25x17 foot compound cyc wall, broncolor lighting and a H2/P45 system.  I am shooting people at the moment, but I will be moving to product as well in the near future.  All is well, except for one thing, and that is that the cyc wall is really just a giant reflector.  Every cyc I have ever seen in my life (I have not seen that many) has been white, so that was what I painted mine, but now that I am using it, I realize just how much light that white wall sends around the room.  Even with flags, it is very hard to make a hard shadow when I have lights lighting up the wall.  Fine for high-key, though, but not for dramatic light.  If I had space, I suppose moving 30 feet from the wall would solve this, but I really can not put my subjects more than 15 feet from the wall.  Keeping in mind that most everything I shoot in front of the wall will be for knockout, is there any reason not to have an 18% gray wall instead of white?  I am only considering this to try and cut back on the bounce light, but I would really appreciate a little feedback from others before I spend the $ on trying this out for real.

Thanks,

Eric Cable

[Nick Rains]

For my entire photo career I have been a location and SLR guy, but at the beginning of this year I put together a small studio with 25x17 foot compound cyc wall, broncolor lighting and a H2/P45 system.  I am shooting people at the moment, but I will be moving to product as well in the near future.  All is well, except for one thing, and that is that the cyc wall is really just a giant reflector.  Every cyc I have ever seen in my life (I have not seen that many) has been white, so that was what I painted mine, but now that I am using it, I realize just how much light that white wall sends around the room.  Even with flags, it is very hard to make a hard shadow when I have lights lighting up the wall.  Fine for high-key, though, but not for dramatic light.  If I had space, I suppose moving 30 feet from the wall would solve this, but I really can not put my subjects more than 15 feet from the wall.  Keeping in mind that most everything I shoot in front of the wall will be for knockout, is there any reason not to have an 18% gray wall instead of white?  I am only considering this to try and cut back on the bounce light, but I would really appreciate a little feedback from others before I spend the $ on trying this out for real.

Thanks,

Eric Cable
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18% grey overexposed is white. If you can't get good distance separation from subject to b/g then your plan is fine. You can easily overlight a grey b/g but knocking back a too close white one is impossible.

[Nick Rains]

Whoops, pressed wrong button...

[Dustbak]

I do mostly product, my wall is grey. I like my studio to start black and add the light myself. You found out yourself, white becomes one big uncontrollable reflector.

Having said that many of the walls I have seen were white as well. I once saw a marble (painted) one. I know a photographer that paints it every time he needs it in a specific color. Indeed most were white... but there are no such things as absolute rules.

[condit79]

Even when using paper backdrops, I´ve never been a fan of bright white.  I´ve always used a light grey and light it when I need white for the same reasons you state.  If you shoot with a lot of dramatic light, definitely darken your walls.  There´s no reason you have to shoot on white just because others do.

[Streetwise]

For the company that I used to work for, we used "Dark Ash" latex from Home Depot. We found that Exterior Flat worked the best. Exterior is *much* tougher than Interior. This particular gray was *slightly* cooler than neutral gray so that when we would do a camera gray balance off of the cove, it would warm the product up ever so slightly. We used mole-richardson hot lights for these types of shots.

We shot mainly furniture products, so the gray color of the cyc greatly minimized the light pollution that would reflect back on the product that a white cyc would typically cause. Almost always though, we would need to lay down black cards, or cardboard near the product to eliminate the bounce-back completely. Because all of the products were siloed (knocked out), having cards in the scene was never a problem.

As for the studio, it was completely black, including the drop-ceiling tiles, except for the floor which was gray. As Dustbak pointed out, it's much better to add light back in.

There was a time where the images would include the background and we used to have to re-paint the cove often, and re-touch spots on the floor with a roller before each shot. Those days are long gone now and we don't re-paint very often any more.

Dave

[Frank Doorhof]

I hate studios with white walls.
I always want the option to black out the studio.
Last year I did two workshops in LA and the studio was totally white, it was terrible to get a good low key portret, untill we moved blackmaterial all arround the model.

Our own studio is deep gray with a heigh ceiling which is white but doesnot infect the scene below, this is done to keep the space spaceious.

Remember to NEVER paint your studio totally black, when you work in a black room for a week you will be very depressed.
I have painted the studio so that I can have white and dark when I want it without having effect on the scene I shoot.

When teaching workshops I want a somewhat lighter studio than when I work for myself.

18% grey is a good option, but best is to choose a non reflective material, or make curtains you can open and close allong the walls, that way you can have both.

[Jonathan Wienke]

You might want to consider one of the backdrop systems so you can switch between white, gray, black or a texture as needed.

[James R Russell]

You might want to consider one of the backdrop systems so you can switch between white, gray, black or a texture as needed.
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If your going to work with a cyc, your going to have to paint.  Every working studio in the world smells of paint.

Still, 15 ft. can be a lot of room, though you neglect to mention your lighting, whether the key is broad/soft or directional.

Most spill comes from side walls and/or low white cealings with a combination of a broad key light.
 
Low cealings are the hardest to work around and do require negative fill.

You can negative fill and black out the sides using sheets of 4x8 foamcore taped together or if budget and equipment permits, large rolling stands with a cross bar and 12x black out dubos.

JR

[Streetwise]

Remember to NEVER paint your studio totally black, when you work in a black room for a week you will be very depressed.

I should clarify:

1) We had dedicated brightly lit offices within the studio space, so a black studio was fine.
2) Ceiling height was 14' so black tiles were not an issue
3) We live in the North East snowbelt area; already depressed, but manage to deal with it!  

Dave

[Eric Cable]

HUGE thanks for the advice, I am just about to reach for the gray latex and roller....  One question though, if I overlight 18% gray to the point that it is white, will it bounce back the same amount of light that properly exposing a white wall (to make it white) will?  Logically, it would seem the answer is yes....

[paulmoorestudio]

HUGE thanks for the advice, I am just about to reach for the gray latex and roller....  One question though, if I overlight 18% gray to the point that it is white, will it bounce back the same amount of light that properly exposing a white wall (to make it white) will?  Logically, it would seem the answer is yes....
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yes, but I hope you have a lot of light(power) if you want a clean even white.
I think if you need white paint it white.. then paint again on next use if different.. side walls and ceilings I agree are better darker than white... I had 18% ceiling and never had an issue.. but it was about 20 ft high.. if I wanted white ceiling I had to rent 20x20 flying flat and put on hi high rollers.
good luck and watch out for all that spill light from your background lights.

[evonzz]

To pick up on an old thread, i am about to build a studio in Shanghai.  Will be painting white cyc.

I am wondering if there is any special kind of white paint to be used.  I suppose a matte white for no sheen, or is it better to use a low-sheen white ?  
Assuming semi-gloss is perhaps a little too shiny.

Also - i will probably paint black above the cyc's on the roof, but i'd be interested to hear people's opinions about ceiling preferences - black or white?

Cheers
RE

[David WM]

I used to use flat paint, but got tired of repainting so went to low sheen for more durability as matt paint is very delicate and scuffs easily. You can wipe a low sheen rather than repainting marks. I haven't tried the Latex exterior mentioned above but it sounds like it could be good. I use a light gray as I find white too harsh. It is hard to get a neutral gray as a black tint added to white base tends to be on the cool side. I prefer a warm cast if any, so have the paint guy mix up the closest to a neutral pale gray he can get. Get him to dry and test it while you are there.

For the ceiling, I prefer black, as when you shoot reflective things you will see the ceiling in the reflections. That might not matter for some things, but looks really bad seeing roof trusses and insulation in the bonet of a car.

David