Rollei 6000 system questions

[Ted Harris]

A couple of questions about lenses and finders for the 6000 system:

1) I note that the 150 Sonar PQ seems to be discontiued.  The 150 Sonnar PQS and EL remain.  When was the PQ version discontinued?  Is there any optical difference between the PQ, PQS and EL versions of this lens?

2)  I'm looking for a 90º finder and have seen cooments that the curent 90º finder uses a lens and mirror system and is not as bright as a prism finder.  Any experience with this finder?  Also, I see used 90º prism finders and also see there is one offered for the HY6.  Anybody have experience with the older 90 prism finder?

[Graham Mitchell]

Also, I see used 90º prism finders and also see there is one offered for the HY6.  Anybody have experience with the older 90 prism finder?
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I should just point out that the Hy6 finders are not compatible with the 6000 series.

[EricWHiss]

A couple of questions about lenses and finders for the 6000 system:

1) I note that the 150 Sonar PQ seems to be discontiued.  The 150 Sonnar PQS and EL remain.  When was the PQ version discontinued?  Is there any optical difference between the PQ, PQS and EL versions of this lens?

2)  I'm looking for a 90º finder and have seen cooments that the curent 90º finder uses a lens and mirror system and is not as bright as a prism finder.  Any experience with this finder?  Also, I see used 90º prism finders and also see there is one offered for the HY6.  Anybody have experience with the older 90 prism finder?
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RE differences in the 150mm PQ or PQS (my guess is no), but just in case you did not already know, there are three different designs:  the 150mm tele xenar is a Schneider design, and the sonnar is a Zeiss design and you will also turn up 150mm rolleigons too as well as a APO macro  (for use with extension tubes or bellows).  If you just go by resale prices the tele-xenar should be the best since it commands the highest prices - but maybe only because its rarer?  I believe you can find both the sonnar and tele-xenar in PQ and PQS versions.  You may find some of the

You can try posting to the rollei section of the medium format group at photo.net as there are several members there that seem to know the older Rollei stuff very well.  In fact Tak Poon has posted the MTF chart for the 150mm sonnar PQS there. The chart has both EL and PQS printed on it but only has one set of curves so I wonder if that means they are the same optical formula?

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As far as the 90 degree finder - there are a few models.   The T finder for the 6000 series is the mirror and lens finder you have heard about.  It has adjustable magnification and also diopter correction but it's not a true prism finder and has some distortion and is not quite as bright.  Though it has some nice features and is much lighter I found it not as good as a prism. The 45 degree prism is great, though there is also a 90 degree prism finder. I haven't used the 90 prism so can't comment but probably would avoid the T-finder unless light weight and magnification were a high priority.

[Ted Harris]

Thanks Eric,

I can't seem to find anyone who has seen or used the 90 prism.  I'll see what I can find at photo.net.

BTW, interestingly, it look like the 150 Sonar PQS has been redesigned from the PQ and EL if you look at the lens specs.

[Ted Harris]

The 90 degree prism was replaced with the 90 degree Tele-finder, although the prism was much better. You can find it used sometimes. The 90 degree prism was very heavy and for some people it was difficult to use it with the Rollei 6008 film cassette, since the distance to their eye would become a bit long.

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Thanks Ed,  banging my head against the wall after looking at my 6008 AF with the film back attached .... of course it would be difficult to get your eye right up to the 90º prism!  Never thought of it, too obvious.

As for the 150 Sonars, the same optically is what I assumed.  Ay idea on when the PQ version was discontinued?

[EricWHiss]

EPd,

Can you tell us more about optical differences between the sonar and tele-xenar?   I've read that the tele-xenar has nice bokeh and makes a good portrait lens, but also that the sonar is good too. A second question would be how do these compare to the 180 f/2.8?

Thanks,
Eric

[EricWHiss]

The Tele-Xenar 150 is sharper over a longer range of aperture values, although the Sonnar 150mm reaches its maximum resolving peak earlier, as is generally the case with Zeiss designs vs Schneider's. The 180mm ƒ/2.8 is a totally different beast and should not be compared with the 150mm designs. It is naturally softer and has very different bokeh due to its large diameter. It should be seen in the line of Schneider ƒ/2.0 80mm and Zeiss ƒ2.0 110mm. I use the "normal" diameter lenses for neutral, extremely sharp images. They are great lenses for documentation-like purposes. The large diameter lenses add some breath to the images that I sometimes need for their slightly athmospheric effect. Their shallow DOF is very attractive for certain purposes as well. These lenses add more flavour, or even romanticism, if you will. For some the effect is very subtle though. You'll need to have a critical eye to see what they do exactly. Some people might be helped more by adding a net or a Zeiss Softar to their normal lenses, in order to get a clearly visible "athmospheric" effect. The large diameter lenses are definitely more subtle than these filters.
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EPd,
Thanks, that's useful information.  I recently compared the 80 AF /2.8 (with and without softar),  80mm f/2.0 (with and without softar),  110 f/2.0, and 120mm Imagon  for soft portraits.  The differences between the 80's is not all that big, but the 110mm really stands apart.  That's why I was wondering about the 150/180.  
Eric

[Wim van Velzen]

I am very happy with the 45 prism for the 6008i I use. It is very nice to handle the camera just a bit below eyelevel (unlike the 90).