Repro work: P25 back or...?

[nicholask]

In my business I shoot art works and 3D material, such as rare books and sculptures, and am looking to purchase a MFDB to use on my Mamiya AFD.  I am wanting to spend around AU$12,000.  Currently I am looking at an Aptus 22, but also seriously considering a refurbished P25 or P30.

I have used Sinar backs a lot in the past, such as the 54M and the 54H, and know Captureshot inside out.  That said, I am not crazy about it as software.  The back quality is second to none, however.

I have shot on the ZD, too.  The main reservation I have about going with the ZD is that I am unsure how 'future proof' it will be, compared to say, a P25, which I imagine will have better resale down the track.  Also, the Phase back allows for higher ISO, and long exposures, which can be handy in those situations where I shoot installations with available light.

Screens on the back are not so important as I largely shoot tethered.

I mentioned the Aptus 22, as I have seen them come up within my budget, and they have an excellent reputation.  

What are people's thoughts?  Obviously the link up bwn Phase and Mamiya is an extremely compelling reason to go with Phase, as well as the strength of C1 software.

Are any of you using your gear for similar work?  Has anyone seen any good deals out there recently that you could direct me to?  Which back do you think would be the way to go in this instance?

Thanks,
Nick Kreisler

www.viewfinderdigitisation.com.au

[Colorwave]

I'm in the same boat, ready to purchase a MFDB for art reproduction (as well as personal location work).  I've made up my mind to buy a refurbished P30, after initially thinking I would purchase a P25.  I too had serious interest in the Aptus 22, but have just had too many friends and associates that shoot with Phase One sell me on the reliability of their backs and the simplicity of their workflow.
 
I've chosen the 30 over the 25 because I'm unable to afford a + version, and want the better ISO, improved moire control, and larger file size of the P30.  I'm willing to trade all that in exchange for giving up a little wide angle angle coverage and the ability to use the back with a view camera.  

There may be another special around the corner, but for the moment the special price on refurbished Phase backs is about to run out and jump up by $3K USD.  

Keep us posted with your decision making process, Nick.

-Ron H.

[Dinarius]

I'm in the same business and awaiting a Hassie 39Mp MS.

Have you considered a refurbed Hassie 21Mp MS? Doesn't the 4-shot and 16 res appeal given the line of business you're in?

D.

[Colorwave]

I'm in the same business and awaiting a Hassie 39Mp MS.

Have you considered a refurbed Hassie 21Mp MS? Doesn't the 4-shot and 16 res appeal given the line of business you're in?

D.
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If you can purchase and make money from a $35k back, how can you go wrong?  I'm changing career focus and moving simultaneously, though, and can't swing a shiny new top tier back at the moment.  

I looked at the Hasselblads, but don't care for the Imagebank (for the older backs) or FlexColor, and have a mild case of anti-Hasselblad bias.  Of the handful of people I know with their backs, there does not seem to be much evangelism for the brand.  I'm a modelmaker by trade (for a couple of more months, that is) and often work over 100 shoots a year with a wide variety of photographers.  I still see system lock ups and technical glitches much more with Hasselblad/Imacon shooters.  Granted, though, they always get their shot.  

I only know two people with multi-shot backs, and while the 4 shot does provide more accurate color out of the box, 16 shot proves impractical due to many factors for both, particularly softness from minute vibration or movement, even on concrete studio floors.  

I will not be shooting for museums, but for print reproduction, so I may be a bit more dependent on softproofing and hard proofing to match colors.  Between monitor and print I've got things nicely dialed in.  I just need to get from capture to a file I can work with.

Congrats on the CF-39MS.

-Ron H.

[Dustbak]

If you have used the 54H you know whether multishot is what you ultimately want or not. If that is the case there are only 2 brands to consider.

[Streetwise]

I too have a lot of experience with the Sinar 54H on a P3 camera in the studio. When I opened my own business, I rented an Imacon back as well as an Aptus 22 back. Between the two, I really liked the Aptus much better as the Imacon was kind of quirky; especially the software. Some of that could have been the fact that it was a rental I suppose. Anyhow, I eventually decided to go for an Aptus 17 that the rental store was selling to make room for the newer backs. I got a hot deal on that and a used Mamiya AFD. About a year after that, Leaf had an upgrade deal to send in the 17, and trade up to the Aptus 65 for $2,000. So that's where I'm at now.

I shoot a lot of studio room-scene work for a furniture manufacturer, so I use the back on a Sinar P2 camera. I also have a Cambo DS Wide (no lens yet) for architecture, plus the Mamiya for general work.

I have to say that I've been very impressed with the Aptus 65 (same price range as the P31+ I think), but I've been very intrigued by what I'm hearing about the Phase backs, primarily the + series backs that supposedly work better on longer exposures. That is something that's very important that the Sinar back was always fantastic at; better than the Aptus I'd say.  So if I were to purchase again now, I think I would definitely rent a Phase back and compare that to the Leaf. Quite often I catch myself wondering how much a used Aptus 65 might go for on a trade...

[Leonardo Barreto]

I have a P25/AFD and document art and installations for galleries here in New York. I have not used the Leaf -or H- systems, so can't compare but a friend has one and likes the way it profiles.

I got mine about a year ago from CALUMET and have no complaints, the back and C 1 work well, I shoot most of the time tethered and the connection is very stable. Yo can shoot the camera from the computer, something that you cannot with a Leaf/Mamiya system.

I made a few profiles and use them according to the situation, alongside Phase One back-specific generic ones, for example, the "Easy Grey" is an interesting profile that produces impeccably white gallery walls while maintaining color in the art work. I use it for installation shots.

If you ever get the Mamiya you should remove one battery before putting the camera away, this way the AA's will last for many day's shoots.

To work faster I have a Kirk L adapter with Arca-Swiss grip that makes the camera rotate leaving the lens axis in the same place. This way you avoid having the center of gravity of the tripod thrown to one side... http://leonardobarreto.com/zBlog.html

Full frame backs work well with wide angle lenses since there is only a 1.1 crop factor, also they have large sensel size with good latitude and less voice.

[lance_schad]

The Color Editor that is built into CaptureOne is especially useful for nailing those hard to hit colors that often become an issue when shooting artwork. Similar to film the sensors in digital backs react differently when photographing some of the various subtrates that were used in the creation of the artwork.
The Color Editor tool in Capture One will work with the DSLR's that capture in 12bit or more recently 14bit,but with the 16bits the Phase One back captures you can make more subtle adjustments in color(4k shades vs 65k shades). This tool is located under the Image menu. This tool allows you to edit a base ICC profile (Pxx Product Flash, Easy Gray, etc...), in the LAB color space and then save it back out as an ICC profile for use in your workflow. It is a totally visual that allows you to make your color adjustments with HSL sliders.
The main reason I feel this is such a valuable tool for Art repro and other aspects of capture is that you can do all of your color corrections once to a profile and then either shoot into it as your default profile in your session or batch apply it to captures already made.
So if you are going to be doing multiple works of art where a artist used a blue that is coming out purple, open on of the images in color editor, make your adjustments and then save it out.
More information can be found at :
http://www.phaseone.com/upload/customizing...ure_one_pro.pdf
there is also a whole section devoted to this in one of the chapters of the Applied Craftsmanship Course book by Walter Borchenko.

If you have not used this tool please check it out. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.

lance
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5702 office
Capture Integration , Phase One Dealer of the Year
lance@captureintegration.com

[nicholask]

I don't really want to go down the Multishot route.  There is a difference between one shot and multishot capture, to be sure, but the expense of having the MS is off putting.  I am not keen on Imacon software, either, based on my experiences of using a Flextight scanner.

Interestingly, I have not had great luck so far at finding a P25 that comes in within my budget, but have had an Aptus 22 offered at a good price, and an Aptus 75 that is obviously more expensive, but attractive, nonetheless.

There is an affordable P30 out there that I am thinking about, too.

Thanks for the really helpful posts and I will keep you updated!

Nick
www.viewfinderdigitisation.com.au

[Colorwave]

The Color Editor that is built into CaptureOne is especially useful for nailing those hard to hit colors that often become an issue when shooting artwork.  . . .

Thanks for the link, Lance.  Pretty interesting.  Not something that I typically see the advertising shooters I work with messing with, but it looks really helpful when trying to nail accurate color reproduction.
-Ron H.

[nicholask]

Thanks from me, too, Lance.  I read the article and found it useful.