Lenses for Mamiya AFD - Zoom vs. Single FL

[pindman]

I've retired my Hasselblad 2000 series and am going with the Mamiya AFD.  I have 40mm, 110mm, 180mm, and  2x mutar Hasselblad lenses.  Total weight is an issue.  I understand the convenience advantages of Mamiya lenses, but I'm most interested in optical quality, and have a few questions:

1.  How does the Mamiya 105-210mm zoom compare to the fixed focal lengths in that range?

2.  How do the Mamiya lenses compare optically to the Zeiss?  

It may be worth putting a manual diaphram if there is a visible quality advantage for the Zeiss, but otherwise I think it would make sense to just go with Mamiya.

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with direct experience.

Thanks!

Paul

 

[Frank Doorhof]

Hi,
The 105-210 is great.
The 55-110 is a little bit of a doubt for me, I have tested the 75-150 when it was just released and loved that but did not fit my shooting style, so I'm now waiting for the 45-90 to replace the 55-110.

A must buy is the 120MM macro that one is stellar in sharpness and contrast.
After that the 105-210 and the 150mm are my favorites.

[jonstewart]

A must buy is the 120MM macro that one is stellar in sharpness and contrast.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185221\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Frank,
If you don't mind me asking, are you thinking of the current one, or the new 'D' version? I wonder are there any significant differences.


Thanks in advance
Jon

PS Loved that last body painting set on POTN.

[mcfoto]

Hi
I use the 55-110 & 35 most of the time. I find the 55-110 @ f 11 to be a very good lens. I love this focal length & would be very interested in the new 45-90. You could keep some of your lenses & use them with an adapter  on the Mamiya.
Denis

[HarperPhotos]

Gidday,

Have a look the reports below.

I use both the Mamiya 55-110mm and Mamiya 105-210mm lenses and I think the resolution is superb with my Aptus 75.

Cheers

Simon

[amsp]

All of the old non-D Mamiya lenses I own are excellent (35, 80, 150, 120 macro). I'm waiting to buy the new 45-90 zoom since it focuses much closer than the old 55-110.

[eronald]

All of the old non-D Mamiya lenses I own are excellent (35, 80, 150, 120 macro). I'm waiting to buy the new 45-90 zoom since it focuses much closer than the old 55-110.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Doing some fast tests handheld a week ago, I found that the lens to beat is the cheap 80/2.8, which is itself still outresolved by my P45+. I believe the 120/4 is sharp, but if anyone here has compared the other lenses to the 80 I'd be very interested to hear the results.

Edmund

[jonstewart]

Gidday,

Have a look the reports below.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185256\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Simon,
Thanks for posting those. Funny thing, I was doing some informal resolution testing last week and couldn't see any difference between f11 and f16 on these lenses (and only slight deterioration at f22; P45 on the Mamiya), which sort of confused me for a while (expecting deterioration at f16). Good to see my 'informal testing' wasn't completely Kak! Still surprised they're so good at smaller apertures.

Thanks
Jon

EDIT: Edmund, if I get time tomorrow, I'll do the same with the 80mm..My testing was just with a laser printed PDF of the ISO resolution chart. Not exactly absolute or scientifically precise, but I only wanted a comparison of the different apertures.

PS How did you tell that the lens was outresolved by the P45+?

[amsp]

Doing some fast tests handheld a week ago, I found that the lens to beat is the cheap 80/2.8, which is itself still outresolved by my P45+. I believe the 120/4 is sharp, but if anyone here has compared the other lenses to the 80 I'd be very interested to hear the results.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185271\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've also found the 80mm extremely sharp, feels cheap but works beautifully.

[eronald]

PS How did you tell that the lens was outresolved by the P45+?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185275\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm saying that because sharpening at infinity still adds a lot of detail (Eiffel tower image).
May be bad reasoning.
The 80 on the Mamiya is significantly better than the 50/1.8 on Canon 1DsIII though, so let's not complain
I just bought an old Planar 110/2 - what I need is look and color, rather than sharpness, anyway.

Edmund

[pindman]

I'm saying that because sharpening at infinity still adds a lot of detail (Eiffel tower image).
May be bad reasoning.
The 80 on the Mamiya is significantly better than the 50/1.8 on Canon 1DsIII though, so let's not complain
I just bought an old Planar 110/2 - what I need is look and color, rather than sharpness, anyway.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Have you compared the Planar directly to the Mamiya 80mm?

Paul

[eronald]

Have you compared the Planar directly to the Mamiya 80mm?

Paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mine is being repaired. I tested another sample, which was a joke for sharpness, spectacular CA,, but the look (bokeh) was very nice.

Edmund

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

I've retired my Hasselblad 2000 series and am going with the Mamiya AFD.  I have 40mm, 110mm, 180mm, and  2x mutar Hasselblad lenses.  Total weight is an issue.  I understand the convenience advantages of Mamiya lenses, but I'm most interested in optical quality, and have a few questions:

1.  How does the Mamiya 105-210mm zoom compare to the fixed focal lengths in that range?

2.  How do the Mamiya lenses compare optically to the Zeiss? 

It may be worth putting a manual diaphram if there is a visible quality advantage for the Zeiss, but otherwise I think it would make sense to just go with Mamiya.

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with direct experience.

Thanks!

Paul

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185207\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have most of the Mamiya AFD lenses. The sharpest imho is the 75-150 mm "D". It is better than either the 80 or the 150. It is better than the 55-110 mm. As mentioned by others, it also focusses to 1 meter. It has become my standard lens.

Tied with it is the new 120 mm macro "D". This lens is less versatile of course - but it IS a macro and gives 1:1 images.

The 45 mm is a good lens but I've not compared it directly to anything else. The 35 mm is reputedly a bit soft but mine seems great, certainly at it's sweet spot, f11.

The sharpest WA is the 28 mm "D" lens. It really makes MF wide-angle work way better than DSLR at an equivalent  angle. (Roughly 20 mm with P back crop)

Finally the 300 mm APO is outstanding - I can't see any resolution difference from f5.6 to f11.

Often I carry only the 75-150, the 28 and the 300. With the P45+ you can easily crop the 28 mm image to equate to the 35 mm lens with great results.

I do look forward to the 45-90 though. I find these new "D" lenses to be outstanding.

Bill

[BobDavid]

The 80mm f/2.8 is very sharp. The 80mm manual macro is excellent as is the 120 macro (non-digital version). The 150 AFD f/4 is a beautiful lens, nice bokeh too. The 45 AF is good, but the 35 is soft at the edges, which is disappointing. The 35 is the weakest of the Mamiya lenses in my collection, which is unfortunate as I am a wide angle nut. I use a Hassie CF 39MS back on an AFD body.

[SecondFocus]

I have recently added the 105-210 and the 45 and both are just outstanding. I also really like the 150. But for that matter I am also really happy with using the 80 and the 210. Then for a real plus is the 80 1.9 manual focus.

I have shot with the 55-110 but it doesn't not add any versatility to what I shoot so I have not purchased one. Next up for me will be the 300.

It all depends on what you need for what you are going to shoot. I guess one of the big advantages of the Mamiya is that you really can't go wrong with lenses.

[jonstewart]

I'm saying that because sharpening at infinity still adds a lot of detail (Eiffel tower image).
May be bad reasoning.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Edmund.
Must try that out asap (Good or Bad!)
Jon

[Jack Flesher]

FWIW, just got my Mamiya and have been playing around with a few lenses. I only have the ZD back at this time, but here's what I can tell you...

My 110 Planar absolutely rocks (second generation F lens), and this is at just about any aperture, even wide open.  The Mamiya 200/2.8 APO MF lens is in this league too --- both are stunningly sharp.  The 200 negative is it only focuses to 2.5 meters, but it's cheap used.  The 110 Planar of course focuses close, to about .75 meter and is NOT cheap.

Going to be testing the 80/2.8 AF directly against the manual focus 80/1.9 later today, but initial images show the 1.9 is superior.  I'll report back with my final findings...

The 35 AF and 55-110 AF are both pretty good, but not in the league of the lenses above.  To clarify, I'd say the zoom is about as good resolution and distortion as the Canon 24-70/2.8, and the 35 is about as good as the Canon 24 L, so they're good, but not stunning.  I would agree with Edmund on the 80 AF as well, and say that these lenses are *not* out-resolving my 22MP back. While I have not done an empirical test to confirm this, my logic is the 110 Planar and 200 APO look so much sharper they probably are out-resolving my sensor.  The 80/1.9 may be close, more later...

Have a 50 Planar coming this week so will report back on it...

As an aside, I picked up a scrungy 145 Soft Focus Mamiya.  This lens was really cheap, under $100, because it had fungus.  I have it at the shop getting cleaned. This will prolly cost me over $200 to get that done right, but still not much invested for a special-use glass.  Anyway, I snuck a few shots off before sending it out for the CLA and it looks really promising for say artistic portraiture or still-life, figure, etc...  Way nicer effect than any SF filter or CS treatments.

One of the huge benefits of owning a Mamiya system is the range of glass you can mount on it. The other is the fact the FP shutter goes to 1/4000th, so I can actually shoot a lens like the 110 f2 Planar wide open in daylight without having to add an ND filter...

More later!

[Jack Flesher]

Okay, just finished my not-so-scientific test of the two lenses at all apertures through f11.  Simple answer is the AF lens pretty much spanks the 80/1.9.

At medium 2m "people" focusing distance, f2.8, 8 and 11, the 80 AF is clearly superior to the 80/1.9 in center and corner resolution.  At f4 and f5.6, center resolution is equal and I suspect both lenses are out-resolving my sensor -- however, the corners of the 1.9 are notably softer than the AF lens at these apertures.  

At infinity, there is no contest at any aperture --- the AF lens is superior, clearly out-resolving my sensor at f4 through f11...  Note also that at f11 on the f1.9 lens, the negative effects of aperture diffraction are apparent to the point of unusability --- IOW this is an f8 minimum aperture lens, at least my copy...  

As for focusing the f1.9 lens at f1.9, I simply used the AF confirmation dot and got good focus. However, for whatever reason, the 80/1.9 only appears to be sharp at f1.9 in the intermediate distances, say 2 through 6 meters.  CLoser in or further out, the central area goes soft.  So, if you have one, I would suggest it be relegated to the medium "people" distances at f8 and lower.   Lastly, and somewhat discouraging, is the f1.9 lens' bokeh --- pretty clumpy and distracting background highlights; I'll take the AF lens at f2.8 over the faster MF lens at all apertures on any day.  And I am a bit bummed to have to say that...  

Bottom line is if you want a fast, beautiful-rendering lens for people, get the Hassy 110 Planar F and a good quality Hassy to Mamiya adapter and work a step further back than you're used to working...

Cheers,

[John_Black]

Jack - the Mamiya 80mm 2.8 AF peaks at ~F5.6; anything beyond F5.6 and it's a trade-off between DOF vs diffraction.  With the 12mm tube, it's a great a close-up lens for product shots.

[Jack Flesher]

PS: Here is a shot from the Planar wide open at f2, near the minimum focus distance. These are posted "as shot" directly form the camera, no added sharpening, exposure or color adjustments.  (It really pops if yo add a bit of post sharpening, even to this little jpeg crop!)  FWIW, this flower is about 30 or 40mm across, and this was manually focused on the stamen using the Mamiya's electronic focus confirmation dot:

click thumb for 1200 pixel jpeg of full image -- talk about buttery bokeh!:


Here is a 100% crop -- again, click for full size.  Look at that thin DOF!:


Cheers,