New Cambo Wide RS Shift Camera

[jmboss]

To All Interested Forum Members,

I believe it's time to give this new Cambo camera its own discussion thread.

Most of what little info I have about the new Wide RS version was kindly supplied to me by fellow forum members who have had a brief opportunity to see or handle the prototype model in the last month or so.

The RS camera is said to be around 6 inches square vs. the larger 9 x 8.5 inch rectangular size of the current DS model.

The RS is said to favor digital photography more so than the ability to shoot with film; thus the smaller overall size.

The amount of rise, fall, left, and right shift is approximately 15 to 20mm.

The current line up of Schneider and Rodenstock focus mount lenses that are available for the WDS and Compact models are said to fit the new RS version.

It's interesting to note that if this was a discussion about a new DSLR that was about to hit the store shelves within the timeframe of a couple of months, we would already be neck deep with specs, pictures, and endless pro & con discussions about the model. In the case of the RS, we have mostly a silent pause at this point.

I am sure many Alpa enthusiasts will be interested in how this camera compares with the new 12 MAX; given the apparent similarities in design.

Any of the dealer members who frequent this discussion forum willing to contribute more detailed specifications, and a suggested price point for this new camera?

........And a few photos of the camera would be most welcome too!

Thank you.

Joe Bossuyt

[yaya]

........And a few photos of the camera would be most welcome too!

You'll also notice the AFi adapter.
For availability and pricing best would be to contact Calumet.

[jonstewart]

Now wasn't it a shame I didn't bring a camera to Focus!

Thank goodness you did Yair! (But wasn't the AFi 7 a bit of overkill for these shots   )

On a serious note, I have contacted Calumet, and as of about a week ago, they have no clue about availability.
Jon

[Kumar]

Is the lensmount unchanged? The locking arrangement seems different.

Cheers,
Kumar

[yaya]

Is the lensmount unchanged? The locking arrangement seems different.

Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

AFAIK the lens mounts and the back adapters are 100% similar to the ones on the WD-S

Yair

PS Jon be sure you speak to the right people - 0207-380-4511

[jonstewart]

Thanks, Yair
J

[jmboss]

Thank you Yair!

Your RS photos are a joy to my eyes and most welcome.

Regards,

Joe Bossuyt

[bryanyc]

Thanks for those shots Yair!

Note the nifty viewfinder in the bottom of one of those images...

since I consider the Alpa max would definitely like to hear  more about this one....

[danazoo]

When released, I truly wish Cambo would be more honst about the shift parameters. While they are selling a shift camera, what is one to shift that lenbs to?

This is stated to have a 15mm-20mm degree of shift? The current 24XL has zero amount of shift because of the image circle size. Even the 35XL and 47XL are only capable of @ 11-14mm. My point being, a 20mm shift camera is lovely. Being able to use 20mm of shift/rise might actually be an added incentive. Currently, it is not a usable feature unless you have a very long lens.

At least that's my experience.
d

To All Interested Forum Members,

I believe it's time to give this new Cambo camera its own discussion thread.

Most of what little info I have about the new Wide RS version was kindly supplied to me by fellow forum members who have had a brief opportunity to see or handle the prototype model in the last month or so.

The RS camera is said to be around 6 inches square vs. the larger 9 x 8.5 inch rectangular size of the current DS model.

The RS is said to favor digital photography more so than the ability to shoot with film; thus the smaller overall size.

The amount of rise, fall, left, and right shift is approximately 15 to 20mm.

The current line up of Schneider and Rodenstock focus mount lenses that are available for the WDS and Compact models are said to fit the new RS version.

It's interesting to note that if this was a discussion about a new DSLR that was about to hit the store shelves within the timeframe of a couple of months, we would already be neck deep with specs, pictures, and endless pro & con discussions about the model. In the case of the RS, we have mostly a silent pause at this point.

I am sure many Alpa enthusiasts will be interested in how this camera compares with the new 12 MAX; given the apparent similarities in design.

Any of the dealer members who frequent this discussion forum willing to contribute more detailed specifications, and a suggested price point for this new camera?

........And a few photos of the camera would be most welcome too!

Thank you.

Joe Bossuyt
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[MattLaver]

When released, I truly wish Cambo would be more honst about the shift parameters. While they are selling a shift camera, what is one to shift that lenbs to?

This is stated to have a 15mm-20mm degree of shift? The current 24XL has zero amount of shift because of the image circle size. Even the 35XL and 47XL are only capable of @ 11-14mm. My point being, a 20mm shift camera is lovely. Being able to use 20mm of shift/rise might actually be an added incentive. Currently, it is not a usable feature unless you have a very long lens.

At least that's my experience.
d
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=186252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Respectfully, I'd disagree. What should they state, if not their maximum shift capabilities? Different figures for each lens?

I would expect they are showing it with the 24xl to show it can be used on that camera and therefore how close the lens and back can be with this system and how precise it is. Not every solution can take that lens. It also shows how compact the system can be with a lens attached, something relevant when you have to travel with your kit. They did have other lenses on show too.

Apparently it uses the same lens mount as the WDS so it will take all the same lenses with all their respective image circles. Your experience may differ, but my experience is you can shift the 35 Digitar 15mm comfortably and the 47 Digitar well beyond the 20mm maximum shift of this camera given its 113mm image circle. Even the Rodenstock Digital 55 (non HR) has a circle well beyond at 125mm.

So I think claiming the need for very long lenses to need these amounts of shift is unfair. I use these sort of shift amounts every day and I doubt I'm the only one.

Matt

[jmboss]

To All,

I received an email reply from Rene Rook at Cambo about the new Wide RS camera model.

Based on the very few working pre-production models, the current highlights of the camera at this time, are as follows:

The vertical travel range, as well as the horizontal travel range, is to be a total of 40mm in each direction.

Both movements are on the same side of the camera, in the focal plane, so that stitching in all directions can be achieved while the lens position remains stationary.

Movements in both directions are GEARED.  

Even though the Wide RS is smaller that the Wide DS, it still has geared movements in the 4 directions, 20mm left, 20mm right, 15mm "down", and 25mm "up".

Since the lens side of the camera does not move; the rear plate lowers to a maximum of 25mm to achieve the rise of the image up to a max of 25mm.

A detachable tripod mount, approximately 25 mm in height, will allow room for the vertical shift above the level of the tripod platform.

Unfortunately, I failed to ask, and Rene failed to mention, if the geared movements can be locked in place, as featured with the Wide DS.  However, based on the posted photos, it looks as though there are two "roller" controls for each shift direction; one obviously providing the movement, and the other to probably tighten the new position.

The height of the camera body without its detachable tripod mount is only 150 mm. There is a tripod mounting hole provided on the body of the camera.

The width of the camera body is only 155 mm including the 2 handgrips on either side as shown in the posted photos.

The thickness of the body (with camera adapter in place, without lens) is 46 mm.
 
Interchangeable camera adapters will be available for the Hasselblad V and H models, Contax, Mamiya, as well as the new Leaf Afi and Sinar Hy6.

The RS lens mounts are the same as the existing Wide DS and Wide Compact models.

The RS is NOT replacing the Wide DS.

The Wide RS is a smaller alternative to the Wide DS, and will be a third model in the product line, which includes the Wide Compact.

Comparing the two Cambo shift models:

The Wide DS’s  H x W x Depth = 220 x 219 x 120 mm

The Wide RS’s  H x W x Depth = 150 x 155 x 46 mm

To date, no definite pricing has been determined, but the RS camera price is expected to be similar in range to the Wide DS.

According to Rene, more detailed info and specs for the new Wide RS model will be up on the Cambo website soon.

Joe

[jmboss]

The current 24XL has zero amount of shift because of the image circle size. Even the 35XL and 47XL are only capable of @ 11-14mm........ Currently, it is not a usable feature unless you have a very long lens.

danazoo,

For the "sensor challenged" owners out there such as myself (I happen to still use a Kodak Proback Plus and/or a Leaf Aptus 17), I am able to use that shift capability even with the 24mmXL lens.  With a two image stitch, I can obtain the same field of view as the "full frame" 36x48 sensor folks.

Joe

[free1000]

The only drawback I could see with this camera is for stitching applications.

The 'worm gear' style rollers might take a lot of revolutions to move the full 40mm in one direction.  This is unless there is a coarse and fine adjustment (which would be complicated).

Of course until one gets hands-on one cannot know for sure.
 
The Wide is very fast to stitch with, though the one feature I don't like is that the locking adjustment for the movements can easily interfere with the position of the shift and or rise that is there.  And the difficulty of operating the camera from the rear... something Alpa have partially solved with their 'mini ballcock' shift indicator.

[adammork]

This is stated to have a 15mm-20mm degree of shift? The current 24XL has zero amount of shift because of the image circle size. Even the 35XL and 47XL are only capable of @ 11-14mm. My point being, a 20mm shift camera is lovely. Being able to use 20mm of shift/rise might actually be an added incentive. Currently, it is not a usable feature unless you have a very long lens.

At least that's my experience.
d
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=186252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is not my experience, it's more like this, with Schneiders Digitars on an Aptus 75 - Alpa XY

24XL @ f11 with CF: 4-5mm

35XL @ f16 with CF: 20mm, if you can accept a small degree of "artistic"   fall-off, then you can add 2-4mm and you can make the graduation of the fall-off less harsh if you remove the centerfilter.

47XL @ f16 without CF: 35mm, again you can add 5-8mm if you can accept some degree of fall-off.

This is all in landscape shifting up.

/Adam

[jonstewart]

The only drawback I could see with this camera is for stitching applications.

The 'worm gear' style rollers might take a lot of revolutions to move the full 40mm in one direction.  This is unless there is a coarse and fine adjustment (which would be complicated).


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=186332\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The gearing is much quicker than the Alpa. I played with both those and the Silvestri's at this show. I don't remember there being a coarse and fine adjustment though.

Jon

[bryanyc]

The gearing is much quicker than the Alpa. I played with both those and the Silvestri's at this show. I don't remember there being a coarse and fine adjustment though.

Jon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=186360\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I spoke with Rene today. He said the shifting goes quickly.
Production starting in 2 - 3 months.
Info up on web site in a week or so.

regarding shift, if you want more shift with the above mentioned lenses you could always focus a bit closer to increase the image circle and with depth of field still keep your subject in focus.  Might gain a few mm shift this way.  Also I believe the more you stop down the harsher the falloff no?  Finally, one could do some parallax correction in pshop though it is not ideal.

I am very interested in this camera compared to the new alpa max which should be available about the same time.  The cambo should be significantly smaller than the alpa and less expensive I imagine.

[jonstewart]

The cambo should be significantly smaller than the alpa and less expensive I imagine.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=186472\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I certainly hope so!
J

[jmboss]

IMHO,

The Cambo Wide RS is a timely opportunity for Cambo to downsize and revise some of the features of the older Wide DS without having to accommodate the larger design parameters required for film based photography. It is also an obvious marketing response to the new Alpa 12MAX model, since both will be smaller versions of their larger brethren, have similar features, and are due on the market at roughly the same time.    I also believe, as well, that the Wide RS will be introduced at a significantly lower price than the 12MAX, based on the price points of the current camera models of both brands.

The competing brand's new camera sizes:

Cambo Wide RS - Height x Width x Depth =  150 x 155 x 46 mm

The Alpa 12MAX - Height x Width x Depth =  206 x 177 x 31mm

Joe

[jmboss]

jonstewart and bryanyc,

Are either of you able to confirm the nature of the shift controls used on the new Cambo Wide RS?

Are there indeed 2 roller controls side by side for each shift direction; as the possible separation of the two rollers is barely discernable in the above posted photos?

Is one roller control used for adjusting the shift, and the second adjacent roller control functioning as a shift lock? Or is there some other mechanism involved for this?

Thank you.

Joe

[zeitwand]

Too bad! I just bought the WDS two weeks ago and now Cambo is coming up with this small and lightweight Body. If i only had known what they had in their shelves.

The fact that only the back is moving while shifting horizonal/vertical is a real winner over the WDS for me.

But honestly, i don't like the look of the new Handgrips on the Wide RS. Something like the clear and nice finished wooden grip of the WDS would look much better.

Already a retail price stated ?