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Author Topic: Microstock ?  (Read 15598 times)

eronald

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Microstock ?
« on: March 22, 2008, 06:46:39 am »

At the risk of precipitating another meltdown, let me ask -

What are your experiences selling Microstock ? Which ones are best ?

Edmund
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Quentin

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Microstock ?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 08:09:11 am »

Quote
At the risk of precipitating another meltdown, let me ask -

What are your experiences selling Microstock ? Which ones are best ?

Edmund
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Microstock remains a controversial subject, but an increasing number of pro photographers are dipping their toes in, for the simple reason you can make a decent average per image return that is comparable or better than from traditional outlets.

I make about $700 per month in total from microstock on a potfolio of about 700 images - not many by stock standards.  I also sell different work through RM sites.  I use a pen name "Douglas Freer" for my microstock work.

The "best" seems to vary from photographer to photographer, but I'd suggest the following four are generally regarded as the best: iStockphoto, Shutterstock, Dreamstime and Fotolia.  Some like StockXpert, Bigstock, and there are a few others.

I have just written a book on the subject (under my microstock pen name) for Elsevier, so at the risk of self-promotion and publicity (and I only mention it as it is directly relevant to your question and the only specialist book on the subject, so I think its legit. to do so), you might want to check that out when  its published in early April.  I include links to various sites and some earnings examples taken from real life

See:  [a href=\"http://www.amazon.com/Microstock-Photography-Money-Digital-Images/dp/0240808967/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206187358&sr=8-1]http://www.amazon.com/Microstock-Photograp...06187358&sr=8-1[/url]

Quentin
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 08:17:44 am by Quentin »
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eronald

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Microstock ?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 08:40:30 am »

Could I please have the name of your contact at Elsevier ? I'll ask for a sample and put up a review on my tech blog. It's time I revive that thing anyway.

Edmund

Quote
Microstock remains a controversial subject, but an increasing number of pro photographers are dipping their toes in, for the simple reason you can make a decent average per image return that is comparable or better than from traditional outlets.

I make about $700 per month in total from microstock on a potfolio of about 700 images - not many by stock standards.  I also sell different work through RM sites.  I use a pen name "Douglas Freer" for my microstock work.

The "best" seems to vary from photographer to photographer, but I'd suggest the following four are generally regarded as the best: iStockphoto, Shutterstock, Dreamstime and Fotolia.  Some like StockXpert, Bigstock, and there are a few others.

I have just written a book on the subject (under my microstock pen name) for Elsevier, so at the risk of self-promotion and publicity (and I only mention it as it is directly relevant to your question and the only specialist book on the subject, so I think its legit. to do so), you might want to check that out when  its published in early April.  I include links to various sites and some earnings examples taken from real life

See:  http://www.amazon.com/Microstock-Photograp...06187358&sr=8-1

Quentin
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Quentin

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Microstock ?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2008, 11:25:38 am »

Edmund,

I have sent you a PM message with the contact details

Quentin
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Quentin

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Microstock ?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2008, 11:46:52 am »

I should have added that I include a link to the Luminous Landscape in the book (as a fine art site of interest)  

Quentin
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:47:41 am by Quentin »
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James R Russell

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Microstock ?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2008, 12:52:07 pm »

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I should have added that I include a link to the Luminous Landscape in the book (as a fine art site of interest)   

Quentin
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The stock industry is in a downturn for a lot of reasons, primarily because their only response to technology or market changes is just to lower their prices.

From a buyers standpoint lowering prices isn't bad as long as content improves, though stock usually looks like stock.

The consolodation of agencies by Getty and Corbis makes it even harder for a buyer to find something unique, as typing in the words business concepts probably bring up 80,000 thumbnails.

The most interesting thing I find about the digital stock industry is the pricing model, which is based as much on file size as it is quality or uniqueness and the pricing does not reflect production values.

The fact a RM or RF image of a tree goes for the same price as an image with 12 models, props and locations makes no sense in any form of advertising planning, or budgets.

Then there is the problem that that tree photo, regardless of the buying structure can be used for an international brand while it runs concurrently with a viagra promotion by an online pharmacy

Basically the stock industry needs a compelte overhaul and a new marketing approach, but until someone with deep pockets or heavy market penetration does something different (see I-tunes) it will probably just continue to respond by lowering prices, grouping new agencies and clogging the airwaves with the same imagery.

Micro or dollar stock doesn't just exist because of price, (though at this level price plays a large part in the buying decision), but dollar stock exists because some of it is just as good as what the traditional agencies were offering.

Whether "just as good" means anything in the consumers mind is another thing alltogether.

After all, as a photographer we are hired to shoot something unique for that one client, one brand or service and something that is interesting enough to stop the viewer.

Rarely does stock do this.

JR
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Quentin

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Microstock ?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2008, 01:27:23 pm »

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Micro or dollar stock doesn't just exist because of price, (though at this level price plays a large part in the buying decision), but dollar stock exists because some of it is just as good as what the traditional agencies were offering.

JR
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True, and the problem I encountered when speaking to designers and small businesses were the absurd prices they were being asked to pay for generic imagery by the likes of Getty.   The old major libraries left the door wide open for the emergence of new pricing models.  

Quentin
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 01:27:48 pm by Quentin »
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James R Russell

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Microstock ?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2008, 02:03:07 pm »

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True, and the problem I encountered when speaking to designers and small businesses were the absurd prices they were being asked to pay for generic imagery by the likes of Getty.   The old major libraries left the door wide open for the emergence of new pricing models. 

Quentin
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Quentin,

Abusrb is a moving number.

Phtotography that costs $300,000 but raises sales on an international brand by 400% is a deal, consequently a $10,000 stock photograph that is nothing more than a retread of an old concept . . .well yes, that can be absurd, but not because of the $10,000, or even if it's $1.

Photographers love the photograph, talk about the photograph, constantly try to reinvent the photograph, but usually give very little thought as to whether the photograph they shoot for commerce moves product or not and don't really think that if their photograph can have a desired effect on commerce that it is worth more.

Regardless of portfolios, locations, photographic style, I can give you about ten reasons why someone should hire a photographer, or buy a photograph and though the final photograph is very important, it's still about number 3 on the list.

Still, the estabilished stock agencies didn't really leave the door open for microstock, this is just the current pattern of the stock photography industry in general.

Add more images, sell for less, then add a lot more images, sell them for less, usually to try to appease an owner or the stockholders.

Stock has been moving in that direction for a decade and though microstock or dollar stock sounds like a new concept, it really isn't, it just has more acceptence.

Since my income is derived by specific assignment work, the proliferation of stock does nothing but improve my market because once it all is available and all looks the same, an advertiser has to do something that is more unique.

This doesn't mean that there is not good and unique stock in the marketplace, but it is very hard to identify.

JR
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 02:15:14 pm by James R Russell »
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Morgan_Moore

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Microstock ?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 03:26:00 pm »

While I hate the concept of Dollar stock this bloke is quite interesting..

Yuri an istock contributor who seems to be doing pretty well

food for thought

SMM
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timhurst

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Microstock ?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 05:34:09 pm »

Quote
While I hate the concept of Dollar stock this bloke is quite interesting..

Yuri an istock contributor who seems to be doing pretty well

food for thought

SMM
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As with any pyramid scheme those at the top can do very well out of it.

But as James Russell said this is not a new concept and goes all the way back to the birth of royalty free and Photodisc - single images at the dollar price point but all sold in bulk.

The real issue here is not the price point (which after all is just market forces) but is the royalty free marketing model in general, which by its nature commoditizes the imagery, and results in ever decreasing prices to try and maintain market share.

What's left for those not wanting to get involved with the bargain basement? Rights managed and pricing that is based on exposure and media spend, but only for those that can offer something personal, individual, creative, unique.....

Challenging times!
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free1000

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Microstock ?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2008, 06:51:47 pm »

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While I hate the concept of Dollar stock this bloke is quite interesting..

Yuri an istock contributor who seems to be doing pretty well

food for thought

SMM
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Anyone who can take thousands of pictures of the same shiny happy people deserves the $50k dollars in sales that it has got him! (Assuming most of the downloads are of the $1 variety, it might be more depending on the filesizes).  

It might be a business model... but it seems difficult to make work any way other than as a hobby. It has taken him 2.5 years to earn lets be charitable and say $70k.

He has just spent abotut $30k on a H3D.  So that amounts to $40k over 2.5 years, lets be charitable and say $20k per annum.  

However this sum has to be subtracted from 'opportunity cost' ie: what he could have earned doing something else...

So this only works if those images keep selling, and selling... (not saying they won't), or unless his alternative career option was 'more fries with that sir?'
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 06:52:57 pm by free1000 »
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Morgan_Moore

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Microstock ?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2008, 07:24:33 pm »

I dont know where you get the $50k from he says 650000 licenses PA

(hes not just on Istock but many other too libraries I think)


But in comparison when I had two photographers working for me we were billing quite a lot - but my cost were pretty high too - and we were just a one county agency

He seems to employ a load of people too

maybe not great for a 'global market leader'

But I reckon $650kPA (probabgly double or treble that) is good going for a company ? makes one think its not just for hobbyists

not saying that I approve or that it is the best route

SMM
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 07:26:02 pm by Morgan_Moore »
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eronald

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Microstock ?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 07:31:36 pm »

An interesting factor is that any image that starts to sell should continue selling -

Edmund

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I dont know where you get the $50k from he says 650000 licenses PA

(hes not just on Istock but many other too libraries I think)
But in comparison when I had two photographers working for me we were billing quite a lot - but my cost were pretty high too - and we were just a one county agency

He seems to employ a load of people too

maybe not great for a 'global market leader'

But I reckon $650kPA (probabgly double or treble that) is good going for a company ? makes one think its not just for hobbyists

not saying that I approve or that it is the best route

SMM
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James R Russell

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Microstock ?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2008, 07:37:14 pm »

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An interesting factor is that any image that starts to sell should continue selling -

Edmund
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No not necessarily, in fact the opposite is true.

JR
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eronald

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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 07:59:15 pm »

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No not necessarily, in fact the opposite is true.

JR
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Why ?

Edmund
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timhurst

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Microstock ?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2008, 05:26:38 am »

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Why ?

Edmund
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RF stock eats itself and micro RF eats itself very quickly indeed.

Each library has its segment of the market, ie photo buyers eyes, and these segments will overlap. This pattern will define the selling potential of a single photo. This is RF so once the image has saturated the market to its max potential (think a bell curve) it's not going to get sold again in any meaningful volume. Volume is king for RF but as you can only sell it once to each individual buyer it maxes out. So your top selling pic is suddenly a clichéd, old, tired, has been! And to kick you when you're down, they'll keep using it without paying you a penny extra.
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Quentin

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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2008, 07:47:18 am »

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Why ?

Edmund
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Its not true.  Popular images seem to remain popular.  

Tim is right in that the real argument was against RF generally, but that argument was lost years ago.  The RF end game was always going to be microstock.  Emotionally I prefer (and therefore still sell) RM stock, but you can't get away from the fact that RF, and now its microstock sub-set, makes money and is a popular choice with buyers.

The stuff I sell for microstock is produced especially for it so it does not cannibalize my RM and non stock work.

Quentin
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 07:50:04 am by Quentin »
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KevinA

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Microstock ?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2008, 07:51:58 am »

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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2008, 07:57:15 am »

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My take http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=27245958

Kevin.
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But read the whole thread....  

Hi Kevin, I hope you do brilliantly on Alamy after your great start - but to make a valid comparison, you need to see how it goes over a longer period.  $3k sales are very few and far between.

As you know, my view is do both micro and macro stock.  Its a bit like investing in government bonds and stocks.  You spread the risk.

Quentin
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KevinA

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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2008, 08:03:32 am »

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My take http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=27245958

Kevin.
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I would give them a try on a few images and just see how you think it would work out, for me I think it would be a very bad move for what I do. Others might see it differently.
I complain when Alamy only get $50. or less, it looks like a good deal compared with the micros.
I think the ones that make good money out of micros do so because they are the first to take it seriously, if all pro stock shooters started shooting for micros seriously I don't think any pro would make any money.

Kevin.
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