Looking for MFD dealer and purchasing advise

[theocean]

Hi,

I've decided to jump into the world of medium format digital and am looking for advice on dealers, pricing and purchasing process.  

I picked up a used H1D and have worked with it enough to know that I like the format, resolution and "look" enough to finally move away from film as my primary tool.  I also have an old Contax 645, and have always loved the Contax look (owning a G series package as well).

Now that I'm hooked and produced some work I'm happy with, I'd like to move up from the 22MP and tethered life and am really evaluating the options.   Another used system, trade-in/cross-trade, demo and refurb are all options in my mind.  39MP seems to be the target as I'd like to experiment time to time with the back on a 4x5 and 22MP seems to be phasing out.  

So far I've leaned towards the H line or a Phase back, but with limited reasoning involved.

I'm finding it difficult to get a good survey on other backs, pricing, deals as well as comprehensive technical information all from one source.  Some guidance in starting out would be appreciated.   I am in the Los Angeles area.

So my questions go to the basics of finding a MFD dealer?  For what I lose in local contact, what do I gain from online or distant dealers?  

Practically, as I'm not working as a pro, pricing and value are important.  How flexible is pricing?

thanks in advance,

scott

[j.miller]

Scott,
     My primary suggestions will be to find a dealer who can technically represent the several lines you are considering, who can also speak for the numerous, and quite attractive Upgrade, Trade-In, and Trade-Options available from most medium format digital manufactures.

If I understand you, you currently own a Hasselblad H1D... If this is the case, that would give you the opportunity for attractive upgrade (Trade-Up) options to the most current Hasselblad systems. This would certainly be option to investigate in detail.

There a several manufacturers for backs to fit your Contax 645AF. I share your "love" for the Contax systems (both 645AF and 35mm). Regardless of your selection, you should certainly investigate every possible opportunity for trading-in or upgrading your existing system. You should be pleasantly surprised by the trade-in / upgrade prices that exist.

I can speak for options and various trade-in / upgrade paths from both Hasselblad and Leaf.

The only logical reason to shop outside a geographical area such as Los Angeles will be to find a dealer that can offer greater technical capability and reliable support in comparison to your myriad of options in the Los Angeles area.

If I can be of any help, feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Hi,

I've decided to jump into the world of medium format digital and am looking for advise on dealers, pricing and purchasing process. 

I picked up a used H1D and have worked with it enough to know that I like the format, resolution and "look" enough to finally move away from film as my primary tool.  I also have an old Contax 645, and have always loved the Contax look (owning a G series package as well).

Now that I'm hooked and produced some work I'm happy with, I'd like to move up from the 22MP and tethered life and am really evaluating the options.   Another used system, trade-in/cross-trade, demo and refurb are all options in my mind.  39MP seems to be the target as I'd like to experiment time to time with the back on a 4x5 and 22MP seems to be phasing out. 

So far I've leaned towards the H line or a Phase back, but with limited reasoning involved.

I'm finding it difficult to get a good survey on other backs, pricing, deals as well as comprehensive technical information all from one source.  Some guidance in starting out would be appreciated.   I am in the Los Angeles area.

So my questions go to the basics of finding a MFD dealer?  For what I lose in local contact, what do I gain from online or distant dealers? 

Practically, as I'm not working as a pro, pricing and value are important.  How flexible is pricing?

thanks in advance,

scott
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[clawery]

Hi,

I've decided to jump into the world of medium format digital and am looking for advise on dealers, pricing and purchasing process. 

I picked up a used H1D and have worked with it enough to know that I like the format, resolution and "look" enough to finally move away from film as my primary tool.  I also have an old Contax 645, and have always loved the Contax look (owning a G series package as well).

Now that I'm hooked and produced some work I'm happy with, I'd like to move up from the 22MP and tethered life and am really evaluating the options.   Another used system, trade-in/cross-trade, demo and refurb are all options in my mind.  39MP seems to be the target as I'd like to experiment time to time with the back on a 4x5 and 22MP seems to be phasing out. 

So far I've leaned towards the H line or a Phase back, but with limited reasoning involved.

I'm finding it difficult to get a good survey on other backs, pricing, deals as well as comprehensive technical information all from one source.  Some guidance in starting out would be appreciated.   I am in the Los Angeles area.

So my questions go to the basics of finding a MFD dealer?  For what I lose in local contact, what do I gain from online or distant dealers? 

Practically, as I'm not working as a pro, pricing and value are important.  How flexible is pricing?

thanks in advance,

scott
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Scott,

There are several options that you can choose from, but finding a knowledgeable and reputable dealer is key.  This is a great place to start looking for a MFDBs since several dealers and product lines are present on this forum.

If I can be of any help with Phase One products, please let me know.


Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year[/url]

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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[bradleygibson]

I'm finding it difficult to get a good survey on other backs, pricing, deals as well as comprehensive technical information all from one source.  Some guidance in starting out would be appreciated.   I am in the Los Angeles area.

So my questions go to the basics of finding a MFD dealer?  For what I lose in local contact, what do I gain from online or distant dealers? 

Practically, as I'm not working as a pro, pricing and value are important.  How flexible is pricing?

thanks in advance,

scott
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi, Scott,

You've asked several $64,000 questions--great questions, all.

I made the same transition last year (and ended up with a Phase/H2 combination).  I don't know what type of work you are doing, but I am a nature and landscape photographer looking for the ultimate in image quality.  Please do keep my nature/landscape bias in mind as you read why I chose what I did.

> good survey on backs...

When I did this I considered the H3D-MS, Phase P45+ back, the Hasselblad H3D, the Leaf Aptus 75s and the Sinar eMotion 75.  From the information I could gather, I found the image quality variations between the backs to be in that order.  I was not concerned about color 'out of the box' or other key features that save studio photographers time and money, so everyone's list will differ.  For my needs, critical aspects were noise performance, detail rendering, long exposure and higher ISO performance.  (Just for the record, compared to the latest in small format, all these digital backs rank poorly at higher ISO performance.)

Take a good long look at the various options.  Be sure to evaluate actual image samples--you'll find many very helpful folks on this board who can help you with this.

> dealers...

I am a tech-savvy photographer who, as a result, didn't think he'd need much dealer support.  But the MFDB industry isn't the small-format industry, and a good dealer can make you aware of options you previously weren't, ask questions of the manufacturer and get answers that would be otherwise very tough.

I'd "interview" local dealers first, and find one or two who make you are comfortable dealing with.  Do they want to spend time with you?  Answer questions?  Get back to you when you leave a message?  Are they honest with you when they don't know the answer, but find the right person to get you the information you need?

My local Seattle dealer (Paul Slotboom at OptechsCamera.com) did just that, and I'm very happy with them--I recommend Optechs without reservation, as a either a local or an online dealer depending on where you live.

Speaking of online dealers, here things are trickier, because you are less able to verify who you're dealing with.  Just like dating, I recommend referrals.  I recommend Chris Lawrey (who has already replied to this thread) and Steve Hendrix of PPR Atlanta (PPRAtlanta.com).  Both of these guys are online here and exemplify exactly the kind of deep knowledge and great support that you are going to need.

> pricing

Depending on your negotiating skills and patience, pricing can be quite flexible.  On top of that, you can look at a new, used or refurbished back, through a dealer or via private sale for used.  Stepping back from the latest and greatest models is another way to save a lot of money.

Hope that gets you started, Scott!

Take care,
Brad

P.S.  I suppose I should add that I have no affiliations with those folks I've recommended other than having been impressed/satisfied by my dealings with them as a customer or prospective customer.

[theocean]

I made the same transition last year (and ended up with a Phase/H2 combination).  I don't know what type of work you are doing,...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183336\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brad -

Thanks for all the info, just what I was hoping for.  Your info and experience is a great start.  I appreciate your thinking.  Here are more of my thoughts and specifics in case it helps others address the initial questions.

I'm with Brad on the quality, and I'm also not worried about the "initial look" but more the quality of my negative.  Dynamic range, color depth, black detail and noise all weigh in with the sharpness for me.  While new to MFD, I have a lot of visual experience, digital and otherwise.

I'm aiming primarily at fine art.   People, moments, details and locations.  Much less studio work, but with intent of expanding into that area.   Much  of my work happens traveling both outside of LA, and a good percentage outside the USA - as it tends to coincide with not doing my day job.

I am already moved to digital on the back end, and have slowly been upping print and "proof" sizes on a Epson 3800 from both scanned and digital images.  So far I've been happy with well exposed 22MP shots at the size limits of the printer.  I do plan on printing larger than the 3800 can handle but plan on using an outside service as needed.

While multi-shot would address some of my quality issues, MS doesn't fit my general usage, style, or cost goals.  Two options recently presented to me by the reps are the refurb P45 (not plus) and the H3DII-39 trade-up from the H1D.  It also sounds like the H3DII trade-up deals expire soon.

I'd appreciate thoughts on how the P45, H3D-39, P45+ and H3DII-39 compare.  (I've seen the comparison info on LL about the P45 vs P45+, the improvements in the darks/blacks are what drew my attention to the plus).

My initial visits with local dealers have been mixed, thus prompting the questions here.  I'll give another go after gathering info here as well as talking to some that have already responded.   No Los Angeles based replies yet, but I will be talking to manufacturer reps next week.

From other posts, I'm also sensing a better market in used and trade-in from some the national sellers vs the local market.

Again, thanks - looking forward to more from others.

[Don Libby]

Finding the right dealer is much like finding the right mate; you want a dealer that will be with you for the long haul, not one that just wants to make the sale and then go on to the next customer.  Beware of a dealer that makes an offer that is really cheap, because it will be and more than likely no follow-up.  You want a dealer that you can call and ask questions – six months after the sale.  Referrals are great but only you can tell if the dealer is for you.  Spend the extra time and money in talking you the dealer much like a combination of interviewing and courtship – you’ll either feel it or not and move on to the next dealer.

I made the move to medium format early last year and to my great satisfaction brought from Chris Lawery of Capture Integration of Atlanta GA.  Give him a call and see if “it” works for you, if not no loss and keep looking for that right match.  Personally I have found CI to be a good partner for us.

I live and work in the Southwest (Arizona) and in no way connected to Capture Integration.  I’m employed full time by Iron Creek Photography (I own it) and don’t have time for part time work but am more than willing to pass along a recommendation.

Good luck in you quest

don

[bradleygibson]

I'd appreciate thoughts on how the P45, H3D-39, P45+ and H3DII-39 compare.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183385\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My pleasure, Scott.  Glad to help out.

I think you're going to have trouble telling these four backs apart in the final print at 'normal' shutter speeds and low ISO.  I'd be happy with any of the above from an IQ perspective.

Note that the P45's screen is terrible in terms of color rendition and resolution.  Getting a feel of what you've captured is possible on a small screen, and the P45 left me wanting in that department.  The + is exactly what I'd have expected the P45 to have.  Also I don't remember if the P45's histogram display was multi-channel or not, but I consider that to be essential as well.  The +'s histogram is multi-channel--RGB+L.

Best regards,
Brad

[jimgolden]

if you go for Hass or Leaf, talk to Steve Hendrix @ PPR - he's killer and VERY available for anything that arises - great guy. I'm in Portland, OR - steve calls me on my schedule - which says  a lot considering he's in Atlanta...

tip top in my book.

[stewarthemley]

if you go for Hass or Leaf, talk to Steve Hendrix @ PPR - he's killer and VERY available for anything that arises - great guy. I'm in Portland, OR - steve calls me on my schedule - which says  a lot considering he's in Atlanta...

tip top in my book.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I second that. I'm based in the UK but the distance was no problem. IMO he's honest, knows his stuff and believes in giving great service. Pretty rare these days and worth a lot.

[BobDavid]

Another excellent dealer for Leaf, Sinar, Hasselblad is Michael Ulsaker at Ulsaker Studio in Connecticut. Extremely knowledgeable and fair.

[Ken Doo]

Finding the right dealer is much like finding the right mate; you want a dealer that will be with you for the long haul, not one that just wants to make the sale and then go on to the next customer. 

Unfortunately, this is what I found out after I had already purchased my P30.  My dealer has not made the effort to remain in contact, nor have my calls been readily returned.

However----Chris and the folks over at Capture Integration have been extremely helpful to me.  Chris Lawery has spent quite a bit of time on both phone and emails answering my questions.  I've already committed to purchasing a 1Ds Mark III from Capture Integration and they are now my "adoptive" and new MFDB dealer.

I'm based out of Carmel, CA---but I like the personal attention afforded by Capture Integration all the way over in Atlanta!

Ken

[snickgrr]

Yes, an unhelpful local dealer is not a good thing, but you can't beat a good local dealer.  The one's that are across the country cannot come over to your studio in the middle of a shoot when a problem arises with both a head of knowledge and a backup system to loan you to finish the job.  I've had my salesman do that.  I've had both my salesman and the regional Leaf rep over to my studio checking out a problem.

The key of course is having and finding a good local dealer.  I understand if you're in the middle of nowhere then the Internet is your best friend.

The internet and FedX has allowed for the ability to foster fairly strong and good working relationships with dealers in different parts of the country/world but having a good local guy cannot be beat.  All things equal..price, knowledge etc, etc..give me the local guy any day of the week.

Unfortunately, this is what I found out after I had already purchased my P30.  My dealer has not made the effort to remain in contact, nor have my calls been readily returned.

However----Chris and the folks over at Capture Integration have been extremely helpful to me.  Chris Lawery has spent quite a bit of time on both phone and emails answering my questions.  I've already committed to purchasing a 1Ds Mark III from Capture Integration and they are now my "adoptive" and new MFDB dealer.

I'm based out of Carmel, CA---but I like the personal attention afforded by Capture Integration all the way over in Atlanta!

Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183722\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[theocean]

Yes, an unhelpful local dealer is not a good thing, but you can't beat a good local dealer.  ...  All things equal..price, knowledge etc, etc..give me the local guy any day of the week.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks.  Generally I agree.

I'd love to find things equal and local, but haven't seen any LA recommendations or advice yet.  Either we have no LA readers, or others have the questions I have.

I've used a local company for years, and will continue to do so, for supplies and the recent 3800 purchase, but typically wouldn't consider them equal in price.  Sales knowledge and enthusiasm has always seemed quite variable, and this is a much bigger purchase.

I am giving the local dealers a shot and will followup with them as well but have not been immediately impressed.  Each local contact so far has been specific to a brand and has very limited knowledge of pricing options.   Indications here are that some variance is possible in pricing, which was unclear to me earlier.

The info here has been of much help, and indicates a strong "national" dealer presence with support, which I'd differentiate from "online" (order and ship) places.  In fairness to the local dealers, my current visits have been "kicking the tires" - next week will be the real test.  

LA referrals would also be appreciated.

scott

[snickgrr]

What is Samy's like to deal with?

[theocean]

What is Samy's like to deal with?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm heading in this week to find out.

[MarkKay]

I live in CA but buy most of my stuff through Steve Hendrix Atlanta PPR.  If there is a problem he is very responsive by email and/or phone and keeps an email list of his customers and when important updates -- lets us know. He is quite knowledgeable. He posts here quite often. I finally got to meet him during a work trip to Atlanta.  One advantage is the lack of sales tax. The only disadvantage of not having him locally is less ability to do hands on testing. I do not think they deal in Phase but all the other major brands.  They have demos and will make deals on  trade ins.  There is no harm in talking to him.

Hi,

I've decided to jump into the world of medium format digital and am looking for advice on dealers, pricing and purchasing process. 

I picked up a used H1D and have worked with it enough to know that I like the format, resolution and "look" enough to finally move away from film as my primary tool.  I also have an old Contax 645, and have always loved the Contax look (owning a G series package as well).

Now that I'm hooked and produced some work I'm happy with, I'd like to move up from the 22MP and tethered life and am really evaluating the options.   Another used system, trade-in/cross-trade, demo and refurb are all options in my mind.  39MP seems to be the target as I'd like to experiment time to time with the back on a 4x5 and 22MP seems to be phasing out. 

So far I've leaned towards the H line or a Phase back, but with limited reasoning involved.

I'm finding it difficult to get a good survey on other backs, pricing, deals as well as comprehensive technical information all from one source.  Some guidance in starting out would be appreciated.   I am in the Los Angeles area.

So my questions go to the basics of finding a MFD dealer?  For what I lose in local contact, what do I gain from online or distant dealers? 

Practically, as I'm not working as a pro, pricing and value are important.  How flexible is pricing?

thanks in advance,

scott
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Morgan_Moore]

I would imagine a local dealer that is a rental house (ie carries 'back up') could be most worth having a good relationiship with

A small local dealer who knows less than what can be gleaned from this community and doesnt carry stock of the MFDB nature -less so

SMM