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Author Topic: Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print  (Read 7834 times)

wsolum

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« on: March 18, 2008, 01:35:49 am »

I've been experiencing some "slight" banding on semi-gloss paper with my Z3100.*

At first I thought the diagnostic for print heads was clean because I saw no banding in the solid patches and didn't notice any missing nozzles on the grid patterns.  I did a head align and paper advance calibration without resolving it so I did head cleanings and when I printed the diagnostic again I noticed two gaps in PK.  I went back to the first diagnostic and it too had slight gaps (faint print on a couple nozzles but not entirely missing) and figure this is the cause of my problem.

What I noticed when I looked at the example prints for "good" and "bad" test results in the Solutions tab of the driver is that the "good" example has far and away more nozzles missing than I do.  

What is up with that?  How can that produce acceptable results if I'm fussing over two half-clogged nozzles?

Wayne

* Visible in the reflectance of the print only in darker grays.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 01:36:12 am by wsolum »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 04:22:11 am »

Quote
I've been experiencing some "slight" banding on semi-gloss paper with my Z3100.*

At first I thought the diagnostic for print heads was clean because I saw no banding in the solid patches and didn't notice any missing nozzles on the grid patterns.  I did a head align and paper advance calibration without resolving it so I did head cleanings and when I printed the diagnostic again I noticed two gaps in PK.  I went back to the first diagnostic and it too had slight gaps (faint print on a couple nozzles but not entirely missing) and figure this is the cause of my problem.

What I noticed when I looked at the example prints for "good" and "bad" test results in the Solutions tab of the driver is that the "good" example has far and away more nozzles missing than I do. 

What is up with that?  How can that produce acceptable results if I'm fussing over two half-clogged nozzles?

Wayne

* Visible in the reflectance of the print only in darker grays.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So far my Z3100 hasn't showed any banding yet and the heads are good so I'm on thin ice here.

Since when do you have the Z3100 and what volume is printed ?
Is Printer Utility showing the condition of the heads ? Any warnings ?
You could take out the heads and clean them manually, the printer will start an alignment process after that and you could check whether that made it better.
There's also the possibility that the sensor to check the nozzle output isn't working properly and has to be cleaned or repaired.

The alignment prints may show the missing nozzles that are replaced by spare ones after alignment. If you print a calibration target does it show the banding as well ?


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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neil snape

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2008, 07:31:38 am »

The diagnostic patches are printed without nozzle remapping applied AFAIK.
So although there can be and often are patches with missing lines in the diagnostic page, they shouldn't appear in printed images.
What type of banding are you seeing?
Could it be simply some fluff attached to the print head block?
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wsolum

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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 12:19:00 pm »

Oh boy, I'm bad with descriptions.  The type of banding I see is like a faint gradient, or maybe even stepping, every 6mm.  It appears on a solid charcoal bg.  (See attachments.)

When I left off last night I had done two head cleanings on the PK.  (One by accident, if you hit "Back" on your browser after a head cleaining it does it again and you can't cancel out.)  I've printed one test this morning using best quality, 600dpi and more passes and I don't see any banding.  (Woohoo!)  I had been printing normal quality without more passes.

Which one do you think fixed the problem?  The driver settings or the head cleanings?  

And how do I clean the head sensor if I need to?


Quote
The diagnostic patches are printed without nozzle remapping applied AFAIK.
So although there can be and often are patches with missing lines in the diagnostic page, they shouldn't appear in printed images.
What type of banding are you seeing?
Could it be simply some fluff attached to the print head block?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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wsolum

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 12:26:34 pm »

I noticed what looked like a cat hair on one of the heads when I reseated them but it wasn't.  It was pure ink that had formed a fine diagonal line near the end of the nozle strip.  Cleaning it off didn't fix the banding.

I haven't palyed with the head block mechanics.  Can I remove more than the print heads for cleaning?  And how do I find and clean the sensor that it uses to find missing nozzles?

Quote
The diagnostic patches are printed without nozzle remapping applied AFAIK.
So although there can be and often are patches with missing lines in the diagnostic page, they shouldn't appear in printed images.
What type of banding are you seeing?
Could it be simply some fluff attached to the print head block?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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neil snape

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 01:08:59 pm »

Do a research on the Yahoo group HP 9180 for cleaning the NDD.

Also you can find the number of clogged nozzles via a search on the same forum. I think it's something like when powering on you hit the okay button 4 times, but could be wrong.
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namartinnz

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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 04:51:55 pm »

I would recommend doing multiple head cleans - up to 10. Sounds like a lot but very little ink is wasted - nothing like Epsons-  maybe a mil each  - I had a similar problem with heads, kept cleaning them until they came right. Might work for you.

Neal

mcbroomf

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 05:10:04 pm »

I had a tech come in to look at a problem on my printer about a year ago.  He cleaned the head with a damp coffee filter, just "blotting" the head, not wiping it.  It did eliminate a problem similar to this.  He told me, as Neil mentioned, that you can have a number of nozzles blocked, as long as they are not clustered, without anything showing.....however I had next to no problems in the diagnostic pattern and I was getting this issue.

By the way he sent me a new head to replace the cleaned one and I've never needed to use it so the cleaning worked very well.  It was also one of the blacks....can't remember which though.

Mike
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hubicka

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 05:13:50 pm »

We've had also 3 head clogs on not that heavily used printer (about 150m^2 printed so far, mostly we are on second cartridge in most colors).  Twice it manifested as banding, once as banding with ink dropping on the print from place to place.

It has turned out to be by fact that the machine is used to print on plain paper for CAD purposes too. Limiting ink on plain paper to 85% apparently cured this problems so far.  I needed to do multiple cleaning cycles and didn't need to get the "staircase" part of testing pattern completely clean to get banding disappear.

Honza

wsolum

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 07:24:44 pm »

Problem resolved.  Just the three or four head cleanings did the job.  I printed a 16x20 on luster paper and it was fantastic.  It would be nice to find all the tweaks and undocumented features for the Z3100 somewhere.  There used to be a wiki but it didn't have much.


Quote
We've had also 3 head clogs on not that heavily used printer (about 150m^2 printed so far, mostly we are on second cartridge in most colors).  Twice it manifested as banding, once as banding with ink dropping on the print from place to place.

It has turned out to be by fact that the machine is used to print on plain paper for CAD purposes too. Limiting ink on plain paper to 85% apparently cured this problems so far.  I needed to do multiple cleaning cycles and didn't need to get the "staircase" part of testing pattern completely clean to get banding disappear.

Honza
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dkeyes

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 08:48:26 pm »

Quote
Oh boy, I'm bad with descriptions.  The type of banding I see is like a faint gradient, or maybe even stepping, every 6mm.  It appears on a solid charcoal bg.  (See attachments.)

When I left off last night I had done two head cleanings on the PK.  (One by accident, if you hit "Back" on your browser after a head cleaining it does it again and you can't cancel out.)  I've printed one test this morning using best quality, 600dpi and more passes and I don't see any banding.  (Woohoo!)  I had been printing normal quality without more passes.

Which one do you think fixed the problem?  The driver settings or the head cleanings? 

And how do I clean the head sensor if I need to?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182413\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When I first started using the z3100, I found that I would get banding printing normal without more passes. Printing with more passes/best quality never has this result, just seems to get the best quality print. Not sure why one would print without more passes.(to save ink maybe?)
- Doug
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Geoff Wittig

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 10:33:41 pm »

Quote
I've been experiencing some "slight" banding on semi-gloss paper with my Z3100.*

At first I thought the diagnostic for print heads was clean because I saw no banding in the solid patches and didn't notice any missing nozzles on the grid patterns.  I did a head align and paper advance calibration without resolving it so I did head cleanings and when I printed the diagnostic again I noticed two gaps in PK.  I went back to the first diagnostic and it too had slight gaps (faint print on a couple nozzles but not entirely missing) and figure this is the cause of my problem.

What I noticed when I looked at the example prints for "good" and "bad" test results in the Solutions tab of the driver is that the "good" example has far and away more nozzles missing than I do. 

What is up with that?  How can that produce acceptable results if I'm fussing over two half-clogged nozzles?

Wayne

* Visible in the reflectance of the print only in darker grays.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For what it's worth-

1) The head alignment page frequently looks like crap with lots of banding, but this is 'mapped out' for real prints, so you can safely ignore it.

2) At least in my experience the Z3100 will at infrequent and random intervals start printing very slowly, with the head carriage stopping at the end of a line and waggling back & forth a few times before resuming. The resulting print will often show banding perpendicular to the direction of paper movement through the printer—i.e. across the width of the print as you stand in front of the printer waiting for it to drop into the basket. This is most visible in solid areas, especially shadows or deep blue skies. A head cleaning cycle or three will almost always resolve the situation. I suspect the problem is that the printer's internal algorithm for mapping out jets that are blocked reaches the limit of its capacity to cope, and suffers an electronic brain freeze.  

3) Over time ink will build up on the underside of the head carriage, particularly around the matte black head, until it starts to drip onto prints and deposit itself on the foam "diapers" at the extreme left and right of head movement. You may start to see more frequent episodes of #2 above. In my case this took 7 months and many rolls of paper to show up. When it does, just pull all the heads and clean them with a Q-tip plus distilled water, use a coffee filter to clean the underside of the head carriage, and mop up the excess ink inside the printer. Replace the heads, and all is well.
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wsolum

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2008, 12:45:19 pm »

Thanks.  How do you clean the underside of the head carriage?  It isn't removable, is it?

Quote
For what it's worth-

1) The head alignment page frequently looks like crap with lots of banding, but this is 'mapped out' for real prints, so you can safely ignore it.

2) At least in my experience the Z3100 will at infrequent and random intervals start printing very slowly, with the head carriage stopping at the end of a line and waggling back & forth a few times before resuming. The resulting print will often show banding perpendicular to the direction of paper movement through the printer—i.e. across the width of the print as you stand in front of the printer waiting for it to drop into the basket. This is most visible in solid areas, especially shadows or deep blue skies. A head cleaning cycle or three will almost always resolve the situation. I suspect the problem is that the printer's internal algorithm for mapping out jets that are blocked reaches the limit of its capacity to cope, and suffers an electronic brain freeze.   

3) Over time ink will build up on the underside of the head carriage, particularly around the matte black head, until it starts to drip onto prints and deposit itself on the foam "diapers" at the extreme left and right of head movement. You may start to see more frequent episodes of #2 above. In my case this took 7 months and many rolls of paper to show up. When it does, just pull all the heads and clean them with a Q-tip plus distilled water, use a coffee filter to clean the underside of the head carriage, and mop up the excess ink inside the printer. Replace the heads, and all is well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182855\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Geoff Wittig

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2008, 06:46:31 pm »

Quote
Thanks.  How do you clean the underside of the head carriage?  It isn't removable, is it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183247\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nope, not user-removable, but there's a work-around. Use the front panel to select "head replacement". Once the head carriage moves into position, you unplug the printer (yes, I know, it's a total kludge). You can then move the carriage by hand. Pull all the heads and clean them if needed. Semi-official instructions are then to move the carriage aside, take a coffee filter dampened with distilled water and lay it down on the platen bed, and move the carriage back over it. You can then grasp the edges of the coffee filter and "floss" it back and forth to clean under the carriage. Before I use the coffee filter I first use a Q-tip to clean underneath the edge of the carriage, as I'm afraid of dragging ink across the lenses of the paper sensor and spectro. Most of the ink seems to build up just inside the right-hand edge; that's near the matte black head, which seems to be the main source of overspray.
Hope that helps.
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Charles Gast

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Banding, Z3100 and Diagnostic Print
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2008, 12:23:20 am »

my printer was doing the back and forth nonsense in the parking position between passes. HP had no idea what to do. As usual I fixed it myself.
Turn off memory manager in the advanced settings tab of the driver. The memory manager is some kind of train wreck the HP software geniuses came up with that caused prints that should take 10 minutes to take 45 minutes. Disable it.
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