Phase H10 - worth a try?

[Rainer]

Hi all,

This is my first post here.
I´m a semipro photographer from Austria, using DSLR´s (D3, D200) and rarely 4x5 view cameras (Arca, Graflex), and would like to make my first steps with MFDBs.

I have a chance to purchase a Phase One H10 back. How much do you think i should spend on it and is it even worth a try?
As i mentioned this is meant to be my first step into MFDB. And i want to keep costs at the very low end for the begining.

I think about getting a more actual Leaf Aptus 17/22 or Phase P20/P25 later on, using it with a Hasselblad V and probably an Arca with a sliding back.
I predominantly shoot stock (lots of studio work - children, family, lifestyle) and occasionally architecture and landscape.

What do you think?
Thanks!

[BJNY]

I wonder if your D3 is already better than the H10,
certainly at high i.s.o.

[amsp]

I say go for an Aptus or P-series straight away, buying into MFD in two steps like that will only end up costing you more money and frustration in the long run. A 10Mp tethered back won't provide you much advantage over your D3 to justify the cost anyway. If you want to try it out before committing rent one first. I have a P25 myself, and it's an amazing back, but if I had to choose between an H-series back and a 1Ds MkII I'd go with the canon any day of the week.

[Dustbak]

A 10MP back is certainly better than the D3 if You can use it at base ISO. Color, DR, sharpness can be better than any current dslr. Anything more than 1 stop above base ISO,  the D3 will have the upper hand. (taking into consideration that there is a large number of other factors that define 'better')

Most of the 10MP backs have the same image quality and use the same software as their bigger brothers & sisters.

The question is how much better and will you see it in the final result and medium.

It still is kind of comparing apples & oranges, they are both fruit, they are both imaging tools but that is kind of where the comparison ends.

If you would be able to use a stitching back with the 10MP back you can yield the same results as any 22MP back but with more effort. (the sensor is 24x36, it has the same pixel density as the 22MP backs). For other stuff it is more akward.

Frankly, I would skip this part and try getting a refurb 17/18 (cropped) /22 or even 28/30 (cropped) MP back. You will enjoy that a lot more for sure.

[Shutter]

I say go for an Aptus or P-series straight away, buying into MFD in two steps like that will only end up costing you more money and frustration in the long run. A 10Mp tethered back won't provide you much advantage over your D3 to justify the cost anyway. If you want to try it out before committing rent one first. I have a P25 myself, and it's an amazing back, but if I had to choose between an H-series back and a 1Ds MkII I'd go with the canon any day of the week.
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I second that!

Besser du sparst noch etwas und besorgst dir dann ein P25, eine gebrauchte Hassi und ein paar Linsen (50er, 80er, 120 makro und 180)...
Mit dem H10 wirst nicht grad viel Freude haben, verglichen mit der D3 bringts dir nix, es ist mehr ein 'Downgrade' statt Upgrade
Erst ab dem H20 bist auf Pixelmässig besser dran, aber das kostet eben auch entsprechend mehr...

[thsinar]

The H10 is actually using the Dalsa 11 MPx sensor: it was a wonderful and fast sensor and is still in use in many studios, under different brand names, as a production units or as backup when people upgraded. I don't know many who want to let it go, when upgrading.
My guess is that one can find such a back for under US$ 2'000.-

Thierry

[BJNY]

11MP Dalsa sensor is not usable above i.s.o. 100....gets very noisy.

[thsinar]

yes, definitively.

I think however that it would not be such a bad go, when I see that Rainer is mainly shooting studio work and portrait, at least for the price one can get such a back.

Thierry

11MP Dalsa sensor is not usable above i.s.o. 100....gets very noisy.
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[John_Black]

If the back is going to be used strictly for in-studio shooting under very controlled conditions, then it's workable.  I think these backs sell for more than $2k, not much more, but probably more.

It still won't be "cheap" because it needs a camera body, the strobes need to be 600 watts or more (assuming the back's base ISO is 50) if you're using softboxes, and a computer for tethered shooting.  Arguably the back may be "cheap", but its entourage will start to add up.

Selling the H10 may not be easy either since it's a diminishing market.  Most people want a battery powered back with a built-in LCD for use in the field.  If I were going that route, I'd probably look for a P20 at $5k or so.  That's 16 MP with some of the modern goodies.  

Before buying anything, try renting a medium format back & camera for a weekend.  The rental rates here in the US are ~$300/day for a 22 MP-something.  Pick it up on Friday at 5:00 PM and it's due back by 10:AM Monday and most places only a charge 1-day for that, but you get 2.5 days.

A couple rental sessions cost much less than buying this stuff, so I'd go that route for awhile to see what works and doesn't work for your type of shooting.

[Morgan_Moore]

What do you think?

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I made the mistake of going in cheap (kodak pro back) soon traded up at a big financial loss

I think the H10 is of no value on a MF camera

I could see it being 'interesting' on a LF camera with a sliding back - if you are into PANOs or STILL LIFE

Forget it for shooting people

S

[Kumar]

Rainer,

If you can get it cheap, and can live with tethering to a computer, go for it. It's not too long ago that pros were using the H series. Many pros still tether their P45s, whether it's on location or in the studio. And you can still use it on a view camera and stitch away. Sure, it's more work. But right now, that's okay, I guess.

Yes, you need to get a medium format body and lenses. But look at they are going for these days. A full set of 2 Mamiya bodies and 4 lenses sold on this forum for the princely sum of $800! Get a compatible Mamiya, and you're set.

If you like what you see, keep it until you get a larger chipped back, or simply use it as a backup.

It would be a small investment to make before you spend a heap of money. Even better, rent one for a couple of days, if possible.

Cheers,
Kumar