Piezography K7

[Guillermo Luijk]

I was thinking of giving my R2400 a second chance before selling it for low usage and difficult to achieve correct colours (in fact I trust more a reliable lab than myself).

Now I am going to do intensive B&W and would like to know your opinions about the Piezography K7 inks for the Epson 2400. I have read a post where Michael tried them and was disappointed.

Some more feedback?

1. Is it noticeable the quality improvement over the regular 3 neutral inks?
2. What do I need to make my printer recognise the 7 neutral inks? (what is a RIP?)
3. What calibration do I have to perform on my monitor, printer, system in general for this specific purpose?
4. What colour space is best for B&W? I am not interested in toning at all, want pure R=G=B.

Regards.

[TylerB]

...
1. Is it noticeable the quality improvement over the regular 3 neutral inks?
2. What do I need to make my printer recognise the 7 neutral inks? (what is a RIP?)
3. What calibration do I have to perform on my monitor, printer, system in general for this specific purpose?
4. What colour space is best for B&W? I am not interested in toning at all, want pure R=G=B.

Regards.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178935\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

1- the answers very wildly. I have seen remarkable K7 output, certainly by my standards the best B&W ink on paper I've ever seen. On the other hand, I've heard from others very disappointed. A lot of this depends on your criteria. What, to you, is "better"?
On the other hand, some things are objective and beyond opinion, the resolution on paper is certainly better, more tightly packed dots of lighter inks is smoother, etc..
Of course, some people's files may never show these differences.
Also, for now, you have to prefer the fine art papers, rather than "photo" papers that require photo K inks.
Your best bet is to get a sample, or ask someone using them to make a print for you to see for yourself.

2- You need QTR, a $50 shareware driver. Instructions are very clear and specific from the supplier.

3- for use directly to the proper settings in QTR, gray gamma 2.2 space without output conversion provides the best monitor to print visual match. You work in grayscale, and no tinting is possible anyway as the inks are neutral.

Tyler

[smthopr]

I was thinking of giving my R2400 a second chance before selling it for low usage and difficult to achieve correct colours (in fact I trust more a reliable lab than myself).

Now I am going to do intensive B&W and would like to know your opinions about the Piezography K7 inks for the Epson 2400. I have read a post where Michael tried them and was disappointed.

Some more feedback?

1. Is it noticeable the quality improvement over the regular 3 neutral inks?
2. What do I need to make my printer recognise the 7 neutral inks? (what is a RIP?)
3. What calibration do I have to perform on my monitor, printer, system in general for this specific purpose?
4. What colour space is best for B&W? I am not interested in toning at all, want pure R=G=B.

Regards.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178935\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've explored the multiple black ink QTR method in the past, pre epson 3800.

I made some lovely b&w prints, but not without a pretty large learning curve. I was using an older 1160 Epson and when I switched brands of ink, it clogged up the printer beyond practical use.  I'm not saying that the new cone inks will clog... but I'll guess that they will be more problematic than genuine Epson inks.

I was never really happy printing on matte paper because the blacks were not deep enough for my tastes.

Since getting the 3800 and printing using the advance b&w driver on glossy paper ( I really like the Innova fibra print ultra smooth gloss ) I will never go back to the quad or "septone" system as it's just too much hassle, though I think it's capable of making a slight improvement in the print (smoother gradations when examined up close).

Basically, quadtone b&w printing with non-epson drivers could be hobby unto itself from my experience.  I enjoyed it, others may not...

Have you tried using your 2400 in the advanced b&w mode?  It should look every bit as good as my 3800 I would think.

-bruce

[Geoff Wittig]

The multiple black/grey dilutions should provide smoother tonal transitions, especially through the mid-tone ranges, but whether this will result in visible differences depends on your image files. There are multiple options these days for BW inkjet output. Epson printers' advanced black & white mode is decent, but to my eye it does seem to "step on" the shadows a bit, and there's no real preview. I've been extremely happy with the HP Z3100, which uses four blacks (including both MK and PK) with some media settings. It provides a visibly darker black than Piezography (at least this iteration) and the preview is decent, if not quite "color managed".
If you're very particular, it might be worth taking your file to a good custom digital printer to see what the different output options can do for you.

[Brian Gilkes]

No comment on Piezography as I haven't tried it. Others will advise you better here.
On Epsons, both Advanced B&W and Roy Harrington's Quad Tone RIP both can produce excellent, but different results. Both don't lend themselves to soft proofing. QTR is much mere flexible , especially in the production of subtle tonal shifts . QTR is the lowest cost solution to fineB&W prints.
You can print very well with the full colour inkset too, but need custom B&W profiles that optimise luminosity, especially in the darker tones. This also applies to other methods.Without profiling Advanced B&W is prone to clipping.
 Small color spaces such as Joseph Holmes DCam1 help with fine gradation. The conversion from colour to B&W is very important too . The current PS conversion options offer a great deal of flexibility and you will find the use of the L channel from a La*b* duplicate image, blended on Luminosity as your top layer, assists perceived tonal separation.
B&W is a whole different game and can be extremely rewarding when you get into it.
Have fun
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au

[Guillermo Luijk]

Thank all of you for your comments, you helped me a lot. I have just received a sample of K7. It's just a sample, and it is printed on a very matte Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 188gr/m2 paper, but I can see a total lack of deep blacks. The middle grays are great, but I wonder if this lack of pure black will be a constant with these inks.

I have just tested Advanced B&W with my K3 cartridge set and got a wonderful result (for my present degree of demand), nothing compared with previous samples printed in colour mode that became very dark compared to screen display. So I think I will take some time with my present K3 before trying the K7.

The current PS conversion options offer a great deal of flexibility and you will find the use of the L channel from a La*b* duplicate image, blended on Luminosity as your top layer, assists perceived tonal separation.

Hi Brian, I am at this moment starting to experiment with B&W conversion. I have decided to forget about PS and write my own B&W routine that will output a 16-bit B&W tiff file. Conceptually a B&W image doesn't need to be colour first, or at least not real colour; Y is just a mix of the RGB channels so it's nonsense to scale those channels first (i.e. it's nonsense to apply any white balance).

So I am developing the RAW files with no white balance (1.0 multipliers in DCRAW), and trying to find some algorithm to detect locally which channel provides more contrast (information) in each area of the image, weighting that channel more than the other two to build the final luminosity. The results seem quite promising until now.
Developing with no white balance also lets us forget about the highlight issues when some areas of the RAW file are blown and white balance must be applied with highlight recovery strategies.

BR

[Kirk Gittings]

Following Tyler's points above, some of the best printers that I know use the Cone Ink sets. There is somewhat of an issue IMO about how they fit the imagery. If your images lean towards smooth tonal transitions rather than maximum blacks and steep midtone contrast, the Cone inks are a good bet. Look at the images on Tyler's site vs. mine for instance.

[TylerB]

Kirk, absolutely. I feel strongly there needs to be a complete circular connection and harmony between materials, imagery, working process, and everything else that goes into creating art.
That's what makes these this-vs-that conversations problematic. Pick your process and materials to give voice to your vision.
Hope that doesn't sound too la la.
Tyler