Another newbie needing advice

[LumiWill]

Hi all, looking to buy my first MFDB and have narrowed down to Aptus 17, 22 & Phase One P21, P25. Or even Canon 1ds II should the MFDB not work out.

Factors I'm considering:

Reason for purchase - building portfolio, mainly for fine art, portrait, a little fashion. Not depending on photography to pay bills, but very serious about producing stuff that I like. Was shooting color 220 and 4x5 before and the cost of printing, scanning, and lab rental was mounting and hope to save money in the long run by going digital.

Cost - Below $12K prefer (ultimately flexible) with body (most likely used Mamiya 645 or RZ). Lesser the better without losing too much quality as props, studio, assistant, etc is every bit as important and can be rather costly.

Print Size - 20x24 (max) in print and hi-quality jpg for web.

Shootin environment - 75% studio with profoto acute/25% outdoor, available light

Finally, where to buy? - Love the occasional deals on used MFDB on eBay but  weary of lemons. If from dealers, prefer outside of NYS to avoid paying sales tax.

Thank you in advance for any advice. I've read many previous post prior to
posting and felt that I need to starting shooting and stop reading.

Also, any difference in image quality between the Aptus 22 and 17? Image quality and cost savings is more important than same quality but larger print with the added cost.

Wow...haven't written this much in like ten years. lol

[vandevanterSH]

Not on your list but you might consider the Hasselblad 503CWD..the complete pkg is 10,999 after rebate.   The 16 MP square format is equal to a 22 MP 645.  One big advantage is the amount of Zeiss glass on the used market for 500 series 'blads.

Steve

[elitegroup]

Hi all, looking to buy my first MFDB and have narrowed down to Aptus 17, 22 & Phase One P21, P25. Or even Canon 1ds II should the MFDB not work out.

Factors I'm considering:

Reason for purchase - building portfolio, mainly for fine art, portrait, a little fashion. Not depending on photography to pay bills, but very serious about producing stuff that I like. Was shooting color 220 and 4x5 before and the cost of printing, scanning, and lab rental was mounting and hope to save money in the long run by going digital.

Cost - Below $12K prefer (ultimately flexible) with body (most likely used Mamiya 645 or RZ). Lesser the better without losing too much quality as props, studio, assistant, etc is every bit as important and can be rather costly.

Print Size - 20x24 (max) in print and hi-quality jpg for web.

Shootin environment - 75% studio with profoto acute/25% outdoor, available light

Finally, where to buy? - Love the occasional deals on used MFDB on eBay but  weary of lemons. If from dealers, prefer outside of NYS to avoid paying sales tax.

Thank you in advance for any advice. I've read many previous post prior to
posting and felt that I need to starting shooting and stop reading.

Also, any difference in image quality between the Aptus 22 and 17? Image quality and cost savings is more important than same quality but larger print with the added cost.

Wow...haven't written this much in like ten years. lol
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178556\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi mate,

I'm a newbie to, I can't afford to buy into MFD so I hire as the need and budget requires.

I wouldn't trust buying used from ebay unless I knew the photographer and/or had the chance to inspect the system first.

Check out the Demo Backs link under the Phase One heading @ www.captureintegration.com

You can get a great deal on a demo or used P21, P25 within your budget $12K

- Each back includes a 30-day trade-up guarantee
- Each back includes a 1-year FREE platform-change guarantee
- Possible mounts may include:

    * Mamiya 645AFD
    * Hasselblad H
    * Hasselblad V
    * Contax 645AFD

and you get the continued support and service of a great company.

Gee after that plug I hope I can get a good deal when I'm ready to try/buy the new Phase One/Mamiya III  

[LumiWill]

Thanks Steve and elitegroup for your feedback.

Used Hasselblad when in school, but the square composition never caught on with me and feel than I may be losing sensor real estate if I end up cropping to a 11x17 or 20x24 (which is what i mostly print to) if I were to go with square sensor.

elitegroup, Capture integration is definitely on my radar for exactly your point.

regards, Will

[paul_jones]

Thanks Steve and elitegroup for your feedback.

Used Hasselblad when in school, but the square composition never caught on with me and feel than I may be losing sensor real estate if I end up cropping to a 11x17 or 20x24 (which is what i mostly print to) if I were to go with square sensor.

elitegroup, Capture integration is definitely on my radar for exactly your point.

regards, Will
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178565\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

refurb p30 is better than a p25 or p21 in quality, and is cheap as well.

paul

[LumiWill]

Thanks.

Paul, would love to own a P30 but I think it would be out of my financial comfort zone.

John, thanks for the links. The auctions are very appealling. I'm already tracking the first one, but the second one will give me a reference for comparsion. Will update thread if I end up the winner!

Will  

[Dustbak]

The cropped sensor backs like the P30 or A65 are cheaper in many cases than the 22MP larger sensor backs like the A22 or P25.

I have bought several backs via Ebay. I haven't had any problem with any of them. In my experience most backs are really reliable. As long as you make sure stuff like the IR filter isn't scratched. Ask for a recent raw file, etc.. As someone mentioned make contact with the seller and ask questions. Take in mind also that most people selling these backs realize fully how expensive they are and most have treated their backs with care.

Another option might be to buy one of the refurbs, P21, P30, A17, A65. A bit more expensive will be the A22 & P25. Not sure whether Hasselblad has refurbs but a CF22 is also a very nice back.

For 75% studio work it looks like you can keep within the low ISO's. You could also look at the ZD solutions.

Quality difference between the cropped and 'full' sensors is quite negligible. If wide-angle is important to you or less Dof (for similar focal lengths, distances, aperture, etc..) it might be sensible to look at the larger sensors. If it is not and price is more important stick to the cropped (even if the price gap seems to have narrowed down a bit).

Personally I prefer a 48(49)x36(37) sensor but would not be devastated with a smaller one. I used to use a A17 before (and even smaller ones).

[paul_jones]

Thanks.

Paul, would love to own a P30 but I think it would be out of my financial comfort zone.

John, thanks for the links. The auctions are very appealling. I'm already tracking the first one, but the second one will give me a reference for comparsion. Will update thread if I end up the winner!

Will 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178579\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

a refurb p30 is usually cheaper than a refurb p25, thats why i  suggested it.

paul

[LumiWill]

Thanks Paul. Will look into it. Also, great work!

[stevesanacore]

Maybe it's been said already, but unless you want 39MP, I just don't see any reason to buy any MF back over a 35mm digital body.  The Nikon D3 and Canon 1Dmk3 are fantastic 10MPish cameras, and if you need more MP then the 1DsMk3 is superb.  In my film days I shot 50% 4x5 and 50% 220 so I know where you are coming from.  I may in fact have a MF camera soon, but not less than 39MP back. And I would only use it on landscape and architectural jobs where fine detail and large reproduction is necessary. I have dozens of 24x36" prints from my Canon 5D that are superb.

Hi all, looking to buy my first MFDB and have narrowed down to Aptus 17, 22 & Phase One P21, P25. Or even Canon 1ds II should the MFDB not work out.

Factors I'm considering:

Reason for purchase - building portfolio, mainly for fine art, portrait, a little fashion. Not depending on photography to pay bills, but very serious about producing stuff that I like. Was shooting color 220 and 4x5 before and the cost of printing, scanning, and lab rental was mounting and hope to save money in the long run by going digital.

Cost - Below $12K prefer (ultimately flexible) with body (most likely used Mamiya 645 or RZ). Lesser the better without losing too much quality as props, studio, assistant, etc is every bit as important and can be rather costly.

Print Size - 20x24 (max) in print and hi-quality jpg for web.

Shootin environment - 75% studio with profoto acute/25% outdoor, available light

Finally, where to buy? - Love the occasional deals on used MFDB on eBay but  weary of lemons. If from dealers, prefer outside of NYS to avoid paying sales tax.

Thank you in advance for any advice. I've read many previous post prior to
posting and felt that I need to starting shooting and stop reading.

Also, any difference in image quality between the Aptus 22 and 17? Image quality and cost savings is more important than same quality but larger print with the added cost.

Wow...haven't written this much in like ten years. lol
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178556\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[LumiWill]

Going to a demo this weekend and if I'm not blown away by the A75 or a great deal will probably go wih a new P21+ (Mamiya AFD). Having field a few offers at ~10K from local dealers.

Anyone have feedback or experience with the P21+ that wish to contribute will be greatly appreciated. Thank You!  

[amsp]

FYI there's one on eBay right now.

[Justinr]

I woke up to the fact that sticking to dSLR's was not the way forward if producing results under variable, contrasty or mixed lighting was a requirement. OK I only had a Canon 30D but for the price of a 1D I could move into dMF with all the advantages that it brings. I got myself a Mamiya AFD and ZD with a small range of lenses and despite the poor build quality I am quite confident that I made the right move. The great advantage of the ZD is its performance in mixed lighting. The shop interior at www.justinseye.com/subpage8.html was taken in available light which was a mixture of bright daylight from behind me and fluorescent tubes downstairs. I have brightened up the shadows but not touched white balance. Would the 1D be capable of this with its lesser DR?

Action photography is also possible with the AFD, but not if you rely on multi frame exposure (entirely necessary at times I'll agree) for the right moment. I hope to be putting up some examples on the site soon.

So my advice is that unless you need or desire all the features, settings and rocket science complexity of your average 'pro' dSLR then look very seriously at entry level dMF.


Justin.

[shutay]

My suggestions:

1. Make friends with a digital back dealer or 2, let them know you're interested to know when somebody trades up.

2. Check on KEH.com from time to time - they do get Hasselblad and Leaf digital backs appearing in their inventory, but you'll have to act fast, they don't stay there long! I'm looking at their January 2008 catalog, and they had 2 Hasselblad Ixpress 132C digital backs going for US$7,699 in one case, and US$8,399 for the other, both in Excellent+ condition, along with 100GB ImageBank, and in H mount. Good thing about backs like the Imacon/Hasselblad Ixpress is that the mount is user swappable. Unless you absolutely need the back to be self-contained, the Ixpress backs seem like excellent value at those prices for a 49mm x 36.9mm sensor, as long as you can put up with the ImageBank. I go walkabout with my ImageBank all the time...

Disclaimer: I am just a past KEH.com customer, nothing more. No affiliation, shareholding or anything!

[SecondFocus]

The Mamiya 645ZD could be a very good consideration for you.

[free1000]

Maybe it's been said already, but unless you want 39MP, I just don't see any reason to buy any MF back over a 35mm digital body.  The Nikon D3 and Canon 1Dmk3 are fantastic 10MPish cameras, and if you need more MP then the 1DsMk3 is superb. 

I've used both the Aptus 22 and the 1DsMk3.  The Canon is an excellent camera but I don't think it comes up to the A22 in terms of resolution although it has many other advantages.

Combining a 22Mp back with the digital lenses resolves more detail than the Canon. Plus the files just look different.

Canon if you want 800ASA for sure.

For pure resolution, I'd still vote for MF.

Don't forget that the DOF is completely different on these platforms, it is rather a case of comparing apples and oranges. For one photographer the Canon would be perfect, for shooting different subjects the MF would be needed, ie: it depends on the photographer and the subject matter.

As an example, I can shoot a 47XL at f11 on MF and have to be careful about focus under 20' or so. With the Canon and a 35mm most everything is in focus at f11... a big difference in 'look'. Canon f16  4' to infinity is in focus.  With MF about 4-10' will be in focus. with these similar medium wide angle lenses.
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

but...

the 1Ds3 will be fine up to 20x24, but would benefit from the best lenses available.  

If I was only printing up to this size, I think I'd find it hard to justify MF.