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Author Topic: tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?  (Read 31384 times)

stacibeth

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« on: February 25, 2008, 07:13:34 pm »

I am doing a little research regarding ts lenses and medium format digital. First, are there any ts lenses for any medium format digital???? and if so, for which camera?? Finally, are they any good, which is the best,

Thanks,
Stacy
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EricWHiss

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 07:19:04 pm »

Schneider makes a 55mm PCS lens in Rollei mount which will fit the Hy6 and AFi as well. Never used it but a few forum members here have one so maybe they'll chime in?   In any case if its anything like the other schneider lenses that I have tried, it will be very good.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 07:20:16 pm by EricWHiss »
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snickgrr

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 07:49:12 pm »

I've been using a Fuji 680lll for a long time.  It has tilt/swing/rise and fall for the front standard only.  The range of movements are fairly limited as well as the back standard doesn't have any movements.  The range of lenses as well are limited to the widest being a 50 mm.  This, along with the front standard movements only keep the camera from having true view camera functionality.

But it's a great camera for what it is, a serviceable quasi replacement for a fully movement realized camera with the added benefit of a SLR design.

The optics seems OK, I think of them being better than my lenses for the Mamiya 645.

And of course, Fuji no longer makes this camera.
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lance_schad

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 08:08:25 pm »

Stacy,
On MF there are a few options. One option is the HARTBLEI 45mm Super-Rotator Tilt Shift Lens http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_45mm.htm . This lens will work on the Mamiya 645af and Contax 645Af. We have one and rent it on occasion. It is ok, but not near the quality you would get off of a dedicated solution like the CamboWide or ALPA with a digital lens.
It sells for around $1,000 I think. I will check to see if we have any sample files, if not we should be able to knock out a comparison between a Cambo/Digitar and this lens.
Let me check and I will get back to you.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5702 office
Capture Integration , Phase One Dealer of the Year
lance@captureintegration.com
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amsp

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 08:16:30 pm »

Quote
..we should be able to knock out a comparison between a Cambo/Digitar and this lens.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177379\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, I'd be interested in seeing that comparison too.
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stacibeth

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 08:35:31 pm »

Thanks so much for all of your responses.

Lance,
That would be great!

Anyone using the new mamiya zd 645?? if so, how is it? and are there any ts lense that will work on it?

Stacy
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j.miller

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 08:59:56 pm »

Stacy,
      I feel there is a rather significant decision to make. That is whether you need tilt AND shift. Shift can be accomplished quite easily, and effectively with several very different camera systems. As mentioned previously, there are several shift options from ALPA, Cambo, Rollei / Leaf / Sinar, Fuji, and Mamiya.

Tilt on the other hand, does not allow near the choices mentioned above. For tilt AND shift, your options very quickly come down to the Fuji GX, Mamiya RZ67 Pro IID with a Tilt/Shift adapter, the soon to be released ALPA 12 Tilt Adapter, and some specialty lens solutions from Hartblei or Zoerk. With all of these the systems, true wide angle capability is difficult to accomplish.

With that being said, the RZ67 Pro IID is often overlooked as a very attractive, and proven camera system for today's digital backs. Not to mention an extensive lens line, with both a dedicated shift (PC) lens as well as a Tilt/Shift + Short barrel lens combination. If you are not in need of extreme wide-angle capability, today's digital backs would be a nice addition to a Mamiya RZ67 Pro IID system.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
I am doing a little research regarding ts lenses and medium format digital. First, are there any ts lenses for any medium format digital???? and if so, for which camera?? Finally, are they any good, which is the best,

Thanks,
Stacy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177372\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 11:02:58 am by j.miller »
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EricWHiss

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 09:22:04 pm »

Jordan,
Just a small correction...The Schneider PCS provides both tilt and shift. See attached image from Rollei lens catalog.  The MTF chart for the lens is available here:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6011383&size=lg
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 09:24:59 pm by EricWHiss »
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stacibeth

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2008, 09:22:30 pm »

the mamiya rz67 pro 11 seems very nice, have you used the ts lens with it, is it pretty good. I currently have the canon 5d with a 24mm ts and find I am still having distorion issues.

s
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stacibeth

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2008, 09:24:21 pm »

Quote
Jordan,
Just a small correction...The Schneider PCS provides both tilt and shift.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


what camera will this lens work on??
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canmiya

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 09:25:20 pm »

Quote
Thanks so much for all of your responses.

Lance,
That would be great!

Anyone using the new mamiya zd 645?? if so, how is it? and are there any ts lense that will work on it?

Stacy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177386\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i don't shoot with a zd, but there is a mamiya 50 mm f4 shift lens for the afd series cameras
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EricWHiss

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 09:26:01 pm »

Quote
what camera will this lens work on??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177392\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Rollei 6008, Leaf AFi, Hy6
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j.miller

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 10:10:18 pm »

Eric,
     Thank you for catching that. You are correct, the Schneider PCS is rather unique in that it offers both tilt AND shift on what is now a rather broad range of cameras and digital backs.

Regards,

Jordan

Quote
Jordan,
Just a small correction...The Schneider PCS provides both tilt and shift. See attached image from Rollei lens catalog.  The MTF chart for the lens is available here:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6011383&size=lg
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 11:02:40 am by j.miller »
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j.miller

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 10:21:23 pm »

stacibeth,
       The Mamiya RZ67 Pro IID with the Tilt/Shift adapter is quite nice. I have to admit, the RZ67 ergonimics are something you would have to get used, especially coming from 35mm DSLRs. It is just diiferent way to shoot, and especially a different type of hand-held photography using the RZ67.

With the newest version of the RZ67 Series, the RZ67 Pro IID, you have the option for cable-free configuration with certain digital backs, via special adapter plates from Mamiya and Leaf. This makes using a digital back quite nice, as it eliminates one more cable from an already awkward camera.

The only downside to the RZ67 Pro IID with a Tilt/Shift adapter is the ability for wide-angle capability. With today's 36x48mm imaging sensors on a 6x7cm platform, even the 75mm short barrel lens becomes quite normal in angle of converage.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
the mamiya rz67 pro 11 seems very nice, have you used the ts lens with it, is it pretty good. I currently have the canon 5d with a 24mm ts and find I am still having distorion issues.

s
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 11:02:30 am by j.miller »
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Adina

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2008, 02:41:50 am »

Quote
Rollei 6008, Leaf AFi, Hy6
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Stacy,

look here:
[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22425&view=findpost&p=168532]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=168532[/url]


Greetings
Adina
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Gigi

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2008, 06:54:21 am »

Stacy -

Your question is kind of the holy grail of MF cameras. There are some options, few really good portable ones. The reality is that really good T/S exists in large format cameras, and as much as we'd all like it, medium format solutions are but compromises. They are better optical compromises than 35 mm based solutions, but they tend have limits, and weight to go with them.

Nothing in medium format is as economical to buy and as flexible to use in this area as a 4x5 camera. There are some good shift solutions - Alpa, Horseman, Silvestri, but you lose the ability to compose in the viewfinder.

The Fuji and Mamiya solutions are good up to a point, but like the Rollei, limited to a certain few lens options. I bought the Rollei/Schneider 55 PC lens years ago, in search for a lens that allows "live composition" and still gives shift control (it does have tilt, to a modest degree). Its a decent lens, and is fully automatic (exposure wise), which is nice. I don't think much of it handheld, tho,  so its tripod based only. And its kind of heavy. While it doesn't get much use, the hunt for the holy grail (see above) has cast an untouchable aura over this lens, and it is part of the family, for better or worse.

Good luck in your hunt. If the need for optics is not too severe, and you can live with reasonable quality levels, the Mamiya options might just work for you. Or the Hartblei. But if you are an optics fiend (need for the two bricks in the far far corner at max shift to be just oh so sharp), then really consider a view camera. They are easier on the budget, and a lot more flexible.

Finding that level of quality and flexibility in MF gets very restrictive and/or pricey. There are  also the MF view camera options, like the Rollei Exact or the Linhof, with carefully geared movements. They hold those digital backs very rigidly and are very good, but they are not quite setup for the Sunday jaunt. More for studio work, commercial.  


Geoff
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 06:56:52 am by Geoffreyg »
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BobDavid

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 11:45:44 am »

The Mamiya 50mm f/4 shift lens is actually pretty good, much better optically than the Hartblei, which is kind of junky optically and klunky mechanically. As far as tilt corrections go, your only option is in post production. With a 39 mpixel back, the software solution is viable.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 11:46:39 am by BobDavid »
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hubell

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 03:17:35 pm »

Quote
The Mamiya 50mm f/4 shift lens is actually pretty good, much better optically than the Hartblei, which is kind of junky optically and klunky mechanically. As far as tilt corrections go, your only option is in post production. With a 39 mpixel back, the software solution is viable.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177501\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, there is another option that is rumored to be forthcoming from Hasselblad by Photokina in September(if not sooner): a dedicated tilt/shift lens or lenses. The expectation is that it will only be usable with the H3D series of cameras, so you may want to take that into account in deciding which MFDB system to buy into. I did.

jonstewart

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 06:18:11 pm »

Quote
Stacy,
On MF there are a few options. One option is the HARTBLEI 45mm Super-Rotator Tilt Shift Lens http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_45mm.htm . This lens will work on the Mamiya 645af and Contax 645Af. We have one and rent it on occasion. It is ok, but not near the quality you would get off of a dedicated solution like the CamboWide or ALPA with a digital lens.
It sells for around $1,000 I think. I will check to see if we have any sample files, if not we should be able to knock out a comparison between a Cambo/Digitar and this lens.
Let me check and I will get back to you.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5702 office
Capture Integration , Phase One Dealer of the Year
lance@captureintegration.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177379\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Forget the Hartblei. It's a waste of time (I have one). Too long and quality poor when shifted.

However: I was just a Focus on Imaging here in UK today, and there is a new compact Cambo (Wide RS) coming in about 8 weeks. I was handling the prototype, and it was pretty good. Also very small and compact, compared with the wide DS.

Allows simultaneous shift in both directions. Asymetrical for maximum shift (i think it was about 25 rise, 15 fall, and same (about 20 or so) for shift left and right.

Put a Schneider 35xl on the front, and the lens stays put while you shift around to your hearts content, with perfect stitching (Schneider 35XL has 90mm image circle at f11, 48x39 sensor needs 60 mm image circle), and the back adapter can be mounted in either orientation!

With a stitched solution  (so ability to crop a fair bit), and the quality of the Schneider lenses edge to edge, one line of thinking is that tilt would be unnecessary for most interior shooting. In fact he (Rene Rook) was of the opinion that the last thing you want to do is tilt, cos you start mucking around with the very fine tolerances for the focus.

BTW handled the Silvestri flexcam  extensiely today, and good solution if you really want to tilt the lens and shift. Felt the precision of the movements could perhaps do with some refinements. I'm going to pass on this after handlingit.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 06:23:05 pm by jonstewart »
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Gary Ferguson

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tilt shift lenses for medium format digital?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 01:49:10 pm »

I use a P45+ in a Hasselblad V fitting. The Hasselblad Flexbody allows plenty of tilt and about 10mm of shift with the 40mm IF, 60mm, and 100mm lenses that I mainly use.
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