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Author Topic: CRT's and LCD's  (Read 4601 times)

jpgentry

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CRT's and LCD's
« on: February 21, 2008, 11:27:45 am »

Hope this is the right spot but the color workflow is a big part of printing of course.

I just purchased the NEC LCD2690 widegamut with Spectraview software.  I've heard good things about the 24W from Eizo.  

Questions:
1. What can I expect moving from a 21 inch Sony CRT to the NEC LCD2690 for color matching and editing?  The CRT was calibrated with Monaco profiling.  The new screen will have the Spectraview software and included hardware.

2. I chose the NEC becuase of the good reviews but am wondering how much better the LCD backlight monitors will be.  I hear the NEC is excellent about color shifts when you move your head around to create varying angles.  That said would the EIzo 24W or Samsung ML24 have been better in this regard?

Last what are you guys using?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 11:28:32 am by jpgentry »
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2008, 11:39:59 am »

I just last week upgraded from an old now-fuzzy (but great in its day) CRT to the NEC2690 (with SV) also.  I'm amazed by how much better the NEC is in virtually all respects.  The image has gorgeous colors and is much sharper, I've noticed no issues with side-to-side or angle variations, and my first attempt at calibrating with SV gave an image that matched my printed examples so well that I felt no urge whatsoever to try to tweak things in any way (which was never the case with my previous CRTs).  Some people on the forum here have been having trouble getting the prints and monitor to match, which may be a function of what paper and lighting conditions you're using, but I had no problem; great match the first time.

However, I know nothing about the Eizo or Samsung monitors, so I'm no help with that comparison...

Lisa
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Jim Cole

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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2008, 02:07:49 pm »

I agree with Lisa. I upgraded to the 2690 with SpectarView II about 3 months ago and couldn't be happier. The NEC makes a great match for my HP Z3100.

Jim
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jpgentry

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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2008, 10:43:08 pm »

Thanks for the comments.

I hear you profile this monitor (with spectraview) in the monitor not in the OS.  My question is how do you prevent the OS from trying to double calibrate if you are also calibrating in the monitor itself?
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2008, 11:21:37 pm »

Quote
I hear you profile this monitor (with spectraview) in the monitor not in the OS. My question is how do you prevent the OS from trying to double calibrate if you are also calibrating in the monitor itself?

I'm not sure I quite understand the question, or what it was you heard.   I used to use the standard Gretag-Macbeth Eye-One calibration/profiling software on my old CRT, and SpectraView works pretty much the same way (except that with two-way communication between the puck and the monitor, you no longer have to sit and punch buttons on the monitor to get things calibrated - SV does it all for you).  It saves a profile, and that profile gets applied to the monitor.  It appears to work the same as other calibration/profiling systems.

Lisa
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jpgentry

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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 02:12:39 am »

So I thought the profile was applied by the monitor in an internal look up table instead of in the OS as is the case with a CRT.  I probably just misunderstood the process.

My question is if my above asumption is right and the calibration goes on strictly within the monitor is there a profile also used by the OS?


Quote
I'm not sure I quite understand the question, or what it was you heard.   I used to use the standard Gretag-Macbeth Eye-One calibration/profiling software on my old CRT, and SpectraView works pretty much the same way (except that with two-way communication between the puck and the monitor, you no longer have to sit and punch buttons on the monitor to get things calibrated - SV does it all for you).  It saves a profile, and that profile gets applied to the monitor.  It appears to work the same as other calibration/profiling systems.

Lisa
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 11:20:55 am »

Quote
So I thought the profile was applied by the monitor in an internal look up table instead of in the OS as is the case with a CRT. I probably just misunderstood the process.

My question is if my above asumption is right and the calibration goes on strictly within the monitor is there a profile also used by the OS?

I'm really not sure about the details of what's going on internally.  I just treat the new SV calibration/profiling system just like my old one and it seems to produce the right results.  Hopefully someone else here who knows more the subject can answer this question...?

Or you might try sending a question to NEC's customer service (from their web site) about it.  The person there I had an email conversation with when I was trying to buy the NEC/SV system was very helpful and responsive.

Lisa
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jpgentry

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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 12:44:36 pm »

Not a problem.  The documentation will answer all my question I'm sure.  I'm excited about getting it and it should be shipping out today.  I'll let you know what I think of it.



Quote
I'm really not sure about the details of what's going on internally.  I just treat the new SV calibration/profiling system just like my old one and it seems to produce the right results.  Hopefully someone else here who knows more the subject can answer this question...?

Or you might try sending a question to NEC's customer service (from their web site) about it.  The person there I had an email conversation with when I was trying to buy the NEC/SV system was very helpful and responsive.

Lisa
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Paul Sumi

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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 04:03:27 pm »

Quote
Not a problem.  The documentation will answer all my question I'm sure.  I'm excited about getting it and it should be shipping out today.  I'll let you know what I think of it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176681\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I believe that the SpectraView software bypasses the video card LUTs and talks directly to the NEC monitor's LUTs.  The software also sets the profile created as the Windows default monitor profile.

Paul
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Sven W

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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 04:36:05 pm »

Quote
I believe that the SpectraView software bypasses the video card LUTs and talks directly to the NEC monitor's LUTs.  The software also sets the profile created as the Windows default monitor profile.

Paul
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This is maybe an issue for Schewe or Rodney to reply to.
But there are some software, like the Eizo Color Navigator and basiCColor display, that uses the DDC-protocol. That means a software "speaking" to to the hardware of the monitor. So you don't have to fiddle with the knobs by yourself, just aim your settings, lum+gamma+whtp, and the software will do the rest. They automatically creates o profile for your system. And load a LUT for your graph-card.
/Sven
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jpgentry

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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2008, 04:56:58 pm »

Sounds like a great solution.  Looking forward to getting it set up and comparing the results.  In the meantime if anyone out there is using Eizo and cares to comment on differences between the displays I would love to hear.

Quote
This is maybe an issue for Schewe or Rodney to reply to.
But there are some software, like the Eizo Color Navigator and basiCColor display, that uses the DDC-protocol. That means a software "speaking" to to the hardware of the monitor. So you don't have to fiddle with the knobs by yourself, just aim your settings, lum+gamma+whtp, and the software will do the rest. They automatically creates o profile for your system. And load a LUT for your graph-card.
/Sven
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digitaldog

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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2008, 04:59:33 pm »

Quote
This is maybe an issue for Schewe or Rodney to reply to.
But there are some software, like the Eizo Color Navigator and basiCColor display, that uses the DDC-protocol. That means a software "speaking" to to the hardware of the monitor. So you don't have to fiddle with the knobs by yourself, just aim your settings, lum+gamma+whtp, and the software will do the rest. They automatically creates o profile for your system. And load a LUT for your graph-card.
/Sven
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Yes, that's possible based on the display and software etc. In the case of the NEC, you're getting DDC like functionality and more (they have their own proprietary technologies) for a lot less money. If only they made the software pretty <g>. It could use a make over, but the functionality is there and its easy to use with plenty of color geek feedback for those that want it. But yes, its a one button affair, no messing around altering OSD.

I'm down to my last Sony Artisan which is about to go by-by. I like the 2690 a lot, can't wait to see the new 30". But the NEC software has all the functionality I needed that I had from the Artisan.
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Sven W

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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2008, 05:23:25 pm »

Quote
Yes, that's possible based on the display and software etc. In the case of the NEC, you're getting DDC like functionality and more (they have their own proprietary technologies) for a lot less money. If only they made the software pretty <g>. It could use a make over, but the functionality is there and its easy to use with plenty of color geek feedback for those that want it. But yes, its a one button affair, no messing around altering OSD.

I'm down to my last Sony Artisan which is about to go by-by. I like the 2690 a lot, can't wait to see the new 30". But the NEC software has all the functionality I needed that I had from the Artisan.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176759\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I've been using the Eizo family now for almost 5 years. And they're really amazing!
Very, very cloose in softproofing. But a hefty price!
Here in Eu we also have the nice Quato from Germany. Very smooth and accurate esp. for B/W.
Some have a Quato for bw and an Eizo for color-work.
/Sven
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JPrimgaard

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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2008, 11:50:47 am »

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I'm down to my last Sony Artisan which is about to go by-by.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176759\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm curious as to why it is going.  Has it "worn out"?  Do you know it's worn when it will not calibrate anymore?

Just curious since I have an Artisan, but it's had very light use the past couple of years due to other commitments.

Thanks,
Jake
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digitaldog

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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2008, 12:24:29 pm »

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I'm curious as to why it is going.  Has it "worn out"?  Do you know it's worn when it will not calibrate anymore?

Just curious since I have an Artisan, but it's had very light use the past couple of years due to other commitments.
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It still runs fine. One issue is size. These days, a 21" is too small. I was using it next to a 2690 for soft proofing sRGB sized doc's. One issue is, there's a huge disconnect in luminance between the two (the Sony might be at 95cd/m2, the NEC is at 150). I also know someone who's real interested in buying one on the cheap.
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